Explanation from WA state official regarding composting toilets

“It is acceptable to have a composting toilet, however all of the “gray” water needs to be disposed of in a septic system per WA state code so nothing is really gained by using a composting toilet.  Most people just decide to permit a septic system for both “gray” water and “black” water as both are considered sewage in the eyes of the state”

Does this sound accurate? So what is the solution here? Is treated gray water no longer considered gray water?

Unfortunately,..this involves litigation between legal jargon and the interpretation of legal jargon. The statues will have to be reviewed by someone who can understand and then dispute them(A Lawyer). More often than not if you rely on an interpretation because it's in your favor and then act, the opposing party will act on their interpretation and file a suit against yours and it will be decided in court. You can appeal etc...

The state is saying... You can poop in a bucket all you want, but everything coming from your sink and shower has to be in a septic. And since we are forcing this on you, you might as well tie in the toilets.

Ask them "How am I  going to fit my car in the sink when I wash it and create gray water/sewage", lol ok so...PS it doesn't help being a smartass, they have a file...

You cannot get past building codes because of new construction inspections. If it's an existing off-grid and there are no grandfathering in laws and they know... They will be coming to inspect all off-grid because that's what they are after. They have a predetermined list of all known properties. If they do not see any permitting on those properties by the time the laws pass, they will be posting a notice on your door. If you do not comply, they will use your and everyone else's tax money to come after you and force you into submission and bankrupt you in the process.

You might say, I have an outdoor shower... doesn't matter, they don't care. The laws are purposely written to negate any work-around in most cases. And you can be sure that if anyone ever finds one, the law will have a new amendment to cover it.

The inspections require the process to be visible, if you have pipes covered, you have to expose them. No matter the case, if you never even use the sinks and showers and not a drop of water ever runs through into the septic.. They MUST be tied into an approved pipe, into an approved septic tank and drain into an approved drain field.

They forced one of my neighbors to even get a special aerated septic because his percolation test didn't pass...cost over 10k

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Good Luck

Disclaimer: I am not a Lawyer, THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE

Thanks Will. This is quite, um, poopy news. Thanks for the input.

For new construction, there isn't really a way around it. It is what it is -- unless you have an alternate system and can find an engineer willing to put their professional stamp on it.

For existing properties, it depends on the jurisdiction. I know a few that don't really bother with existing properties unless they receive a complaint. I have been told this directly by the department in question. It's not officially grandfathered; rather they assume it met Code when it was installed in the past. However, as soon as you touch any part of the system you have to upgrade everything to the current Code. The takeaway: be a good and respectful neighbour.

If I wanted to continue with the idea of using a compost toilet, is there any significant savings or difference in system for a septic system that only has to deal with gray water?

Bill Levy wrote:If I wanted to continue with the idea of using a compost toilet, is there any significant savings or difference in system for a septic system that only has to deal with gray water?

They will probably not want to approve it and coax you to include it. They may not allow it at all because of future sale. whether you"feel" you would never move or not.. Homes generally out live us. Its based on # of bathrooms usually.
What they may say is you still have to install everything as if the toilet were installed. more likely

Say you want to add a bathroom, they could make you install a bigger septic and drainage field to accommodate. even though your family isn't growing or you're usage remains the same. You can find more info from the authority or codebooks for your location... Like,....1 bathroom req's x,  or 1-2 bathrooms req. x,  x= # of gals. of septic can also change size of drainage field.

They also may have a clause stating that for a "bathroom" to be considered a bathroom it has to include a toilet. Whether they consider a composting toilet a "toilet" I have no idea.
Same if for the definition of a "kitchen" or a "bedroom"
I had an old mobile home years ago, I wanted to use it for storage. County said "remove the kitchen", which made the dwelling "unlivable" in the Counties eyes and possibly not a "Dwelling" or "livable dwelling" or "Home"
And a "bedroom" cannot be considered a bedroom without a "closet".

For every space there is a definition of that space.. for every fixture there is also a definition. There is also req's for the fixtures and spaces of those fixtures. A "toilet" must be clearly accessible and nothing within 26" directly in front, for example.
Or a handrail must be between 36" to 42" and include banisters not further than 4" apart.... all for different size people an safety of children.

Oh sorry, I didn't really answer your actual question. Little savings unless you are paying for your water, less change of a clog. Grey water only hmm, bacteria differences, you'll have to research that 1. lots of detergents,soaps, also hair and ick,..

I should clarify my previous post. A stamp from a professional engineer in the field does not force a municipal jurisdiction to accept that system. That is done at their sole discretion. Rather, this is part of a negotiation process. I have seen situations where unorthodox approaches that technically did not meet Code were conditionally accepted, pending an engineer's stamp on that plans. That stamp protects the municipality from liability, so they were willing to play ball.

As for the rest of my previous post, it reflects my direct personal experience and I stand by it.

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:I should clarify my previous post. A stamp from a professional engineer in the field does not force a municipal jurisdiction to accept that system. That is done at their sole discretion. Rather, this is part of a negotiation process. I have seen situations where unorthodox approaches that technically did not meet Code were conditionally accepted, pending an engineer's stamp on that plans. That stamp protects the municipality from liability, so they were willing to play ball.

As for the rest of my previous post, it reflects my direct personal experience and I stand by it.

Bravo Mr. Alpenstock, I respect a man standing for what they believe.And for trying to reword or explain something for the layman to easily or better understand. Legal jargon is complicated. The words and the definitions of those words can have an entirely different meaning in the legal sense compared to how we use and understand them to be. Explaining legal jargon with legal jargon or even a mix of the two can be be exhaustively confusing for anyone, including myself

Whether either of us achieved "understanding" will never be known.

Hi, I have a property that didn't pass Perc .. so now I have very little options for my 120K piece of land ;(.  I did find this little gem.    https://shop.ecojohn.com/products/septicjohn-septic-alternative-wastewater-incinerator.   At this point, I need to do what ever it takes to build on this.  Anyone have thoughts?  I know it will be expensive to run, but I am thinking of adding solar to the house, so in the summer months, it would negate the costs.  

I found this looking to see if anyone had gotten the state department of health to provide any official information, and found this thread has some information that I happen to know is incorrect, at least in island county, WA.

They could not care less about how many bathrooms you have. The code stipulates that you have 2 people worth of drain field per bedroom. This is why, outside of places that are attached to sewage, you see two bedroom houses with a den, two offices, 3 “bonus” rooms, a gym, a “man cave”, a “she shed”, and any number of other nonsense on real estate listings. The county is trying to use the health department as the gate/limiter for the number of people who can live in the county, and it’s their opinion that the county is full. (They are elected, after all, by people whose property values might dip if the artificial scarcity they impose is challenged). It makes sense for them to use the health department because it’s much harder to argue with “building a bunch of WOOFer cabins here might endanger public health” than it is to argue against “building a bunch of WOOFer cabins might make the lines longer at my grocery store, or increase traffic congestion, or even, heaven forfend, lower the rate that I can rent my airbnb”
The septic permit is here: https://www.islandcountywa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/3596/Current-OSS-Permit-Form?bidId=
You’ll notice that it doesn’t ask how many bathrooms you have, only how many bedrooms. I mean, it makes sense if you think about it. 14 people in a house with 2 bathrooms uncomfortably create as much sewage as 14 people in a house with 7 bathrooms.
The code behind the permit is here:
https://www.islandcountywa.gov/679/Codes-Regulations, but is obviously nightmarish to read/understand. Best of luck.

It really depends on the Sate. Septic systems for greywater are sometimes required since sub surface irrigation isn't occurring during the winter months. In Oregon just greywater systems are usually sized smaller than a system that is also treating blackwater. Composting toilets aren't considered a plumbing fixture in Oregon so there is that. My talking with DEQ employees, improperly maintained composting systems has turned one or two to vehemently opposing their use. I hope the tide turns and it becomes more acceptable and codified. In talking with the county the fear, they have expressed is that a new build using a less expensive greywater system will connect conventional toilets to a system sized too small for the introduction of blackwater after final inspections.

My talking with DEQ employees, improperly maintained composting systems has turned one or two to vehemently opposing their use. I hope the tide turns and it becomes more acceptable and codified. In talking with the county the fear, they have expressed is that a new build using a less expensive greywater system will connect conventional toilets to a system sized too small for the introduction of blackwater after final inspections.

That's very believable. And understandable, people being people.
I have a property i'm working towards building on. Dense clay soil. Type 5, says the designer. i got a permit, but can't have a gravity system. I can't drop a deuce without electricity. it's going to be expensive, but I'm worried if I don't build under this permit I may be legislated out of building at all.

I'd love to build a beautiful alternating two seater, dropping into a daylight basement vault.  Use for a year or more then switch holes. After a year, pull out the compost and spread it. repeat. Looks like I have to build a £40k septic first.