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chickens

Raising dual purpose cockerels for meat

May Lotito

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posted 2 years ago

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I like the taste of the tiny Cornish game hen in the store. They usually come in a 20 oz pack for almost $9. I read that they are very young Cornish chicken, could be cockerel or pullet, harvested at 3-4 weeks of age. Right now i am raising some dual purpose chickens for meat. Some of them will reach the 2 pound mark by 6 weeks old, which equals to about 24 oz dressed and my cost will be $3.40 per bird. Has anyone harvest a non broiler type of chicken so young? Will the meat be tender and comparable to that of the Cornish game hen? Or will it have a different build and be too bony?

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Kristine Keeney

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posted 2 years ago

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It won't have meat distributed the same way and it may have a slightly different flavor, but in general it will be the same.
The whole point of Cornish and Cornish crosses is that they grow quickly so the meat is more tender at relative sizes - the birds haven't done anything with all that muscle.

It's the avian equivalent of veal - tender, young, and flavorful.
Dual-purpose chickens grow slower and have more flavor because they move around more. The meat is tougher as a result - not tough, by any means, but tougher.

So, if you really like Cornish hens, young dual-purpose cockerels grown to the appropriate size and weight is the more sustainable version (if only because the adults are capable of recreating that same situation as many times as you'd like instead of the problems that effect Cornish crosses growing up).

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May Lotito

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posted 2 years ago

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Thanks Kristine, very well explained.
I am going to start culling some next week and try different ways of cooking. My chicks free ramge so maybe they are already getting strong muscles. I had cooked backyard chicken before and the meat was too tough and gamey, dark red in color with taste like venison.

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Kristine Keeney

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posted 2 years ago

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I've heard that backyard chickens are like that from other people - that they have a stronger flavor. It's not been my experience, but I don't raise meat birds as such - extra roosters after I pick my favorites just go to freezer camp.

If you can keep them penned, so they don't do any of the usual chickening things - forage, fly or flap their wings, run around - they'll not develop that flavor. Keeping them in a contained area like a smaller run or chicken tractor will keep them more mild tasting. It means you have to move them daily, and they are more concentrated in space, but that can work out for some people.

That looks like a happy group! They'll be stronger tasting than the supermarket Cornish hens, but milder than adult birds.

The big problem is that commercial meat birds are raised in confinement. If that's what you're expecting, you have to duplicate the conditions. "Homegrown" chicken is going to be tougher if only because they live a much different life. The meat is tougher because they have done stuff, so using more liquid when cooking and/or choosing "hot and quick" or "low and slow" cooking methods work better to keep the meat more tender. I usually opt for low and slow because I like setting it up in the morning and letting things cook for several hours. I'm lazy that way.

Good luck with your experiments!

There is nothing so bad that politics cannot make it worse. - Thomas Sowell
Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual who can labor in freedom. - Albert Einstein

May Lotito

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posted 2 years ago

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I care less about the flavor but prefer the meat to be tender. Last time i ended up giving the cooked rooster to the cats since it was too tough to eat. I certainly don't want to spend time and money on meat I won't enjoy eating.

I kept the chicks in a mobile pen under the trees when they were 1-4 weeks old. Due to hot weather ND drought, the ground cover inside the pen had difficulty recovering even though I moved them around every few days. They are happier to roam around too.

I am looking at getting them to grow faster and reach the desired weight sooner through improved diets. Not as fast growing as the meat bird due to their genetics of course. In the past I typically got chicks to reach 50% of the pullet/cockerel weight in less than 3 months, or 70% in 4 months regardless of breed or sex. Hopefully their meat will remain tender with several weeks saved in growing.

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May Lotito

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The chickens are almost 7 weeks with the weights ranging from 1.5 to 2 lbs. I processed one and tge dressing percentage was 64%, from 28 oz to 18 oz ( giblets not included).
I bought a 20 oz Tyson game hen to compare them side by side.
I will roast these two today and maybe repeat tomorrow with chicken stews.

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Kristine Keeney

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posted 2 years ago

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They both look pretty good!
I hope your taste test goes well. Chicken dinner all around!

There is nothing so bad that politics cannot make it worse. - Thomas Sowell
Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual who can labor in freedom. - Albert Einstein

May Lotito

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I cooked the birds in the oven according to the instructions on the game hen package. I am not good at cooking that way and didn't like how they came out( used Montreal steak seasoning) but nevertheless the meat was tender.

Some are starting to crow this week. Three out of the Fry Pan pack are unmistakably pullets, 90% sexing accuracy!

I have two black and white cockerels. Cuckoo maran or plymouth rock?

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Kristine Keeney

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May Lotito wrote:I cooked the birds in the oven according to the instructions on the game hen package. I am not good at cooking that way and didn't like how they came out( used Montreal steak seasoning) but nevertheless the meat was tender.

Some are starting to crow this week. Three out of the Fry Pan pack are unmistakably pullets, 90% sexing accuracy!

I have two black and white cockerels. Cuckoo maran or plymouth rock?

I'm glad the meat was tender. I'm sorry you don't prefer to cook them that way but, now that you know a good alternative way to get meat, you can move forward and do what you want.
A successful experiment that got you useful answers and very satisfying results is always a great experiment!

Getting extra pullets is never bad to my mind. They could lay eggs or help get the next generation of dinners going. But, that's a personal decision you get to make. That 90% sexing accuracy has gotten me too many times, so I always order extra males to make sure I have what I need. Straight run always feels like a gamble no matter what I hope for, so I use it for building permanent flock numbers or situations where it doesn't matter what sex the birds are.

The bird you picture looks an awful lot like the Cuckoo Marans pullets I have as teenagers. The Barred Rock cockerel that was sold as another Cuckoo Marans chick has more definite barring and the Barred Rock Hen I have, as well as the Dominque who looks so similar aside from comb and subtleties of pattern, is the same. I would guess that's a Cuckoo Marans cockerel. The dark blurring of the barring is what I'm basing that guess on. Barred Rock are more distinct in pattern.
Let's see if I have a picture: Not of that grouping, but I will get one. Here's a picture of my Barred Rock hen in a nesting box with a Wheaten Dorking hen. Her markings (the Barred Rock) are distinctly barred.

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There is nothing so bad that politics cannot make it worse. - Thomas Sowell
Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual who can labor in freedom. - Albert Einstein

May Lotito

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posted 2 years ago

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Kristine, your birds are beautiful!
I feel that blurred markings look like cuckoo maran but the color is too dark for a cockerel. Maybe it will change a bit later on. He is on the heavy side and the heaviest one is all white (2 lbs 12 oz at 8 weeks). Not Cornish, I am guessing white rock or rhode island white. The problem with raising dual-purpose chicks is that my kids get attached to them and quite a few of them have names. So far i only took the buff Orpington cockerels since they all look similar.

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May Lotito

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Chickens are 12 weeks old. They are growing adult plumage and molting like crazy. The cockerels are over 3lbs, some over 4 lbs. Processing day is around the corner.

As seen from the picture they are almost the same size as the one year old pullet though the latter has a wider body. Weight wise the four are at:
Rhode island white 12w: 4.5 lbs 2043g;
Cuckoo maran 12w: 4.26 lbs 1932g;
Buff orpington roo: 8 lbs;
Easter egger 11m pullet: 4.6 lbs 2113g.

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Kristine Keeney

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Rock Jr. is quite the solid looking bird! Very photogenic, too!

I was able to get pictures of my Cuckoo Maran pullets. I hope to attach it to this note. You're right. I looked into it - there are feather pattern differences between the Cuckoo Maran and the Barred Rock and Dominique. I took another look and ... my questionable cockerel is a Cuckoo Maran. He's still heading for freezer camp, but it's good to know for later.

I would expect the pullet, even though she's so much older than the others, to be about the same size. Easter Eggers, in my experience, have tended to be lighter birds, for size. Huge personalities, but not a lot of muscle.
Orpingtons are solid. Just solid birds. Calm and very brick-like in form. All fluff on the outside.

You have a lovely flock. I hope the named birds are enjoying the late summer and playing with the kids. One Bad Day is a great goal. I have never been able to eat something I've named, so I just don't name them often. I have more named birds in my flock than ever before, but I have more "keepers" that I am forming plans around. We'll see how that goes.

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There is nothing so bad that politics cannot make it worse. - Thomas Sowell
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Jake Esselstyn

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May Lotito wrote:... Will the meat be tender and comparable to that of the Cornish game hen? ...

My limited experience suggests that aging the meat has a big effect on tenderness. I used to cook or freeze ducks 2 days after slaughter. Then one time I got busy and didn't get around to cooking a couple birds for a week. They were much more tender after 7 days in the refrigerator than the previous birds after 2 days. They're all getting aged about 7 days now.

May Lotito

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Hi Jake, are your cockerel and roo getting along? I'd like too keep another cockerel beside Rock Jr to get more colorful egg genes but worry about the big boy will eventually bully the Buff Orpington roo Pinky. Pinky was bullied as a chick to lose quite a few toe nails.

I do need to rest the bird longer. I had it marinated overnight. If I slaughter a lot of birds, I probably don't have that many fridge space. Can i just freeze first and resume resting whenever I feel like cookibg one? Another thing I'd like to try is sous vide.

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Jake Esselstyn

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May Lotito wrote:Hi Jake, are your cockerel and roo getting along? I'd like too keep another cockerel beside Rock Jr to get more colorful egg genes but worry about the big boy will eventually bully the Buff Orpington roo Pinky. Pinky was bullied as a chick to lose quite a few toe nails.

I can't say. All my chickens are the same age.

May Lotito wrote:I do need to rest the bird longer. I had it marinated overnight. If I slaughter a lot of birds, I probably don't have that many fridge space. Can i just freeze first and resume resting whenever I feel like cookibg one? Another thing I'd like to try is sous vide.

I'd be surprised if you could resume the aging process after freezing. But who knows? Not me. It's probably worth a try.

May Lotito

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I saw video of people processing 50 cornish chickens. After chilling in icy water, they shrink-wrapped the whole chicken and put them in the freezer. The time from slaughter to freezing for each bird was certainly not short enough to beat rigor mortis. I am wondering if aging is still needed after the bird is thawed.

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May Lotito

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I butchered a couple of bad boys when they turned 3 months old, but they were not necessarily the bigger ones. They were both skinned and the dress weights were 2lb 5oz and 2 lbs 12oz respectively. Since they were skinned, I didn't roast but cut out different parts of meat to cook. Haven't gone through all but at least the diced breast meat was quite tender and tasty in the stir fry! ( meat has been resting for 3days)

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May Lotito

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What they look like now with adult feathers half way out.

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May Lotito

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posted 1 year ago

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I changed the title since now I raise them to mature size for meat.

With proper processing tenderness is no longer a problem. I also cook different parts in different way for best flavor. I have been culling two per week since 13 weeks and there are still over a dozen left. Biggest ones are over 6 lbs at 4 months old and expressing rooster behaviors already: crowing, mating, tidbiting and finding nesting site. I need to hurry up before the pullets get hurt.

As for cost, they are still on purina/dumor 20% protein starter/grower, supplemented with kitchen scraps and foraging. They go through a 50-pound bag every 11 to 9 days. Calculated price for feed comes to 2 cents per pound live weight per day. So for a 6 lbs bird raised for 120 days the cost on feed is $7.20. Chick costed $1.44 each. Assuming dressing rate is 67%, the cost of dressed meat is roughly $2.15/lb. Smaller cockerels and pullets cost more due to the fixed initial prices.

Another thing the chickens provide is pest control. I got very little chigger and tick bites this summer. I have sensitive skin and the bug bite marks can take a whole year to go away so this is a great bonus from keeping chickens.

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May Lotito

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I am almost done with all the cockerels at 20 weeks. The last couple of them get extra days since the freezer is quite full. The optimal age for tenderness and flavor is 17 weeks or 120 days for this batch.
By 19 weeks they are not gaining much weight compared to 18w and the skins are sticking to the body and the thigh meat takes a lot longer to cook.

The black ones turned out to be black sexlinks and not marans. They were big birds dressed out around 4.25 lbs not including giblets and had noticeable fat pads in the cavity. Buff Orpingtons at the same age were much leaner. Nevertheless, with some skins off the necks and breasts, I was able to render some schmaltz for cooking.

The pullets are getting ready to lay eggs as I saw them checking out nest sites everywhere.

Maybe next year I will try something different like caponizing heritage birds or just raising cornish x.

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Kristine Keeney

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posted 1 year ago

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I'm glad you had some success with your very interesting experiment.
I'm sorry the "Marans" weren't and were black sex links instead. That's disappointing, but a small adjustment.

It sounds like you got a lot of good information, and gathered some good resources. I wish I had that much in the way of self-stored animal fats!
Thank you so very much for sharing what you learned, as well as the steps you took along the way!

There is nothing so bad that politics cannot make it worse. - Thomas Sowell
Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual who can labor in freedom. - Albert Einstein

May Lotito

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