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Is it possible to have above ground tank in upstate NY and use it in winter?  RSS feed

 
uri go
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Hey,

I want to set up a rain collection system in my weekend cabin. It will be used for showers and sinks - no drinking.

i would love to use one of those 375g tote tanks and leave it above ground. I then wish to use an RV pump to feed from the tank into the house....

The problem is - it seems like it won't work in winter because it will freeze or am I missing something?

I read that because it is 375g it won't become a soild block of water but instead just the top will freeze. So even if that is the case - then the pipe that will run between the tank and the cabin, even if I place the tank right up against my cabin, will have water in it and that will freeze and break right? How can I avoid having water in there?

Of course I can empty it when I leave but if I use it and then go to sleep - it could still freeze and break during the night.

Any help? btw - I will have solar so no warming blankets are possible.
 
allen lumley
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uri go : Without telling the whole world a 911 address give me a closest corner of an upstate county, and I will try to give you an answer for 8 years out of 10 !

Where I am in Northern New York we think its a joke that its a 2hr drive south to reach Upstate medical center in Syracuse NY ! Big AL !
 
uri go
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allen lumley wrote:uri go : Without telling the whole world a 911 address give me a closest corner of an upstate county, and I will try to give you an answer for 8 years out of 10 !

Where I am in Northern New York we think its a joke that its a 2hr drive south to reach Upstate medical center in Syracuse NY ! Big AL !


I am south of Monticello. Near PA

Can I have the 8/10 year answer?
 
allen lumley
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You should be just fine, However, you may want to drain your tanks plumbing before you go up North to your Cabin during January - just to be on the safe side! Big AL !
 
uri go
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allen lumley wrote: You should be just fine, However, you may want to drain your tanks plumbing before you go up North to your Cabin during January - just to be on the safe side! Big AL !


First, not sure even if it is possible to fully drain it... They come with a ball valve on the bottom so even if I shut it off, and then disconnect the pipe that run inside the cabin, there will still be water right before the ball valve of the tank. Look at a Google image of a tote tank and tell me what you think.

Second, if I go there in January for a weekend and connect it so I can use it - then water might be in the pipe for an entire night....

Is this correct?
 
allen lumley
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uri go : Sorry I read your last post Wrong and thought you were pulling my leg. Monticello NY , not Pa.

Short version fossil fuel supplies are figured on the number of degrees below 70 F that the Mean Temperature Falls below on that day !
A month that the average mean temps are all At 50 degrees has 70-50=20 x30 (days per month)=600 degree days !

For the purpose of determining a 'safe 8 years out of 10' we can simplify, and use the mean temps below freezing -

Without making any adjustments for unshaded south facing slopes,(scarce when the sun is low on the horizon Dec,Jan, Feb- -) Wind
breaks,or the presence of LARGE bodies of water Monticello is surprisingly as cold as my home town, Edwards NY, Over 200 miles
further North !

The mean temperature for the first 10 days of Dec is at or above Freezing, The last 3 weeks slowly fall to 10 degrees of frost, during that
period your Supply lines will need to be drained down i strongly recommend a globe valve not a gate valve for this job ! THis should get
you through New years day Weekend !

The Average Mean temperature for all of Jan and the 1st 15 days of Feb is 10 Degrees of Frost, sorry no go !

The last of Febs mean temps warm to only 6 degrees of frost. At this point If you had a 250 gal container full of unfrozen water you should
carry over 8 years out of 10, only needing to drain down the large diameter supply line !

Marches mean temps for the 1st 1/2 of March is just like febs last half except you should be able to fill your 250 gal tank or preferably
larger from Rain water and carry over draining outside supply lines !

2nd half of March you should be able to have standing water in your supply lines as the mean and your 8 of 10 averages are above Freezing

As local conditions can very over as little as 100 yards horizontal, and 10 yards vertical distance from large standing water, more attention
to the means at your exact location, Ask when local camp owners install and take out there pumps ! Hope you find this accurate to 1 year
out of 10 !

For the good of the Craft ! Be safe, keep warm ! As always comments/questions are solicited and Welcome ! Burn like fire flow like water !
 
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