• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nancy Reading
  • Carla Burke
  • r ranson
  • John F Dean
  • paul wheaton
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • Jay Angler
  • Liv Smith
  • Leigh Tate
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • Timothy Norton
gardeners:
  • thomas rubino
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • Maieshe Ljin

!!!!!!!!!!!! Why I'll (probably) never write another book again and why you should

 
r ranson
steward & author
Posts: 38460
Location: Left Coast Canada
13711
8
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 23
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
When I published my book, I started getting emails.  About half a dozen people decided they needed to correct my mistakes.  

The funny bit is, they 'corrected' the parts where I shared my personal observations. As if they were there, at that moment, and saw something completely different (they weren't there).  Most of what they wrote, parroted what the internet had taught them and that I had contradicted the internet... well, that couldn't be allowed.

And then there's one guy, I'll get to him in a moment.  




But first, I want to talk about why I wrote the book.  

I learn best from a very specific style of book.  The author has opinions, is willing to experiment, willing to share their mistakes as well as successes, to share what they don't know yet, and most of all, are willing to share points of view that differ - and cite their sources.  For knitters out there, Elizabeth Zimmerman is the ultimate example of my best kind of author.  

When I wanted to learn how to grow clothing, there was no book like this.  I could see some people well equipped to write this book.  Some of them in my own town.  They have 50 years experience more than me and even a couple of them talk loudly about how they are working on a book or are great writers.  

And yet, 5 years.  10 years, 15 years passed and not one of them had written more than a few lines.  

The book I needed wasn't getting written.  And that really pissed me off.

Why weren't these talented people not writing books so the rest of us could learn?  Why were the books already written so stupidly difficult to understand?   Someone should write this damn book!

And then it softly hit me.  I am someone.



I've been spending the last 15 years learning about this subject.  I've been volunteering to help others with their work.  I've been taking classes and had several requests to teach classes.  I've written articles for magazines (on their request).  I've learned that like all gardening, the answer is "it depends but this is some of the things to look for and how to make adjustments".  I could share my own experiences and show people where they could look for specific information.  The more I learned about this topic, the more I learned that there aren't many hard facts available.  But the ones that are there, I can cite my source and maybe over time, we will learn new things.  

So I spent a few weeks and wrote a book.  Then I got rid of 90% of what I wrote and it turned out to be a mighty fine book.  Of course it took the help of many wonderful people and the entire permies community to make it happen.  But they wouldn't have been able to help if I hadn't written that first draft.



For a niche topic, I'm amazed at how many people are interested.  In writing it, I was able to see that I already knew all that stuff I sought for in this book that I was waiting for other people to write.  It just needed to pull together in one place.  Although most of it is vague in that it encourages people to try things and observe -  it also has some recipes of what worked for me and what worked for others as a starting place.  

But you remember that one guy.  The one I didn't talk about yet?

Yep, him.

By the time he got my book, I was going through some rough health stuff and spending more time in hospital than out.  I am also terrible at answering emails.  By way of explaining why I never replied to him (or any of the others who took the time to correct me).  But mostly, I couldn't see the point of replying to someone who begins with "you are wrong" and every sentence starts with "you should..."  and "you must...".  They just needed to have their say, there's nothing I could say that would change their mind and nothing I wanted to say that would make them happy.  

But this one guy.

He didn't write me every day.  But most.  

He went through my book, line by line, writing hundreds of words for my every one, on what I said wrong, what I must correct.  How I should do what he says.  And so on.  Often contradicting himself day to day.  I took a couple of dozen of his emails and the average word length was 3,000 per email.   He insisted and used very strong words like should, must, required to... and boiled down, he wanted me to recall all the books I published and rewrite it according to his direction.

And like the other Correctors, was focused on the parts where I talk about my personal expierence.  Because what I observed didn't jive with what the university had taught him was correct.

This went on for about 6 months.  

6 months, 20 emails a month, and an average of 3k words per email.  That's more than twice a very, very long novel.  Or to put it another way, he could have written 12 books the size of mine.  

He could have easily written a book the way he felt it SHOULD be written.  Saying the things he felt SHOULD be said.  He was a good enough writer for that.

Instead he wasted so much time telling me how I must obey him.  He put his energy telling other people how to live their lives instead of taking action for himself and making the world a better place.




Humans have a nasty habit of negativity bias.  It's a survival thing.  We pay attention to that which might cause us harm and learn from it.  Otherwise, that striped fuzzy thing in the bushes might eat us.  

All you need to know about negativity bias and how to battle it.


And so thousands of people (well, over a thousand) have told me how much they love the book and how it's given them courage to try something new.  It's those half doze or so Should-ers who bother me.

They are so upset that I didn't write the book they wanted to read that instead of going out there and writing a better book (which would have been the best vengeance ever!) they wasted their time on someone who wouldn't listen to them.  me.

It got bad enough that I learned how to filter my emails and have now added "should" to the auto-junk filter.

They took more energy than all the other lovely people combined.  And every so often, when I think it's done, I get another one to add to the list.




I'm learning something else now.  A totally different thing.

What I've noticed, is that most books, websites, and communities loudly proclaim a specific Myth as fact.  I know it's not.  Most of history didn't need this Myth.  I've met loads of people who don't waste time on the internet who don't subscribe to this Myth.  And yet, they won't write the book I need.  

I really want a book on this topic that busts through these myths.  There's one, it's good, but it's not enough.  It's vague.  It requires the reader try stuff for themselves to find what works for them.  Out of the 600 books on the topic in the library, it's the only one that doesn't perpetuate the Myth.  

And I've been very tempted to learn enough to write the book I want to read.  I almost want to battle the Army of The Myth!

Then I see conversations online - because I still follow some author communities - and see the people telling others how they should write a book a specific way.  Someone should write this book...

... and I think "aren't you someone?"

I wasn't an expert when I wrote my book.  I still am not.  But I wrote it anyway in hopes that someone - maybe one of these Should-ers - would get a fire under their ass and write a better book.  I'm still waiting for those better books.  




So yes, I'm saying I'm too tired to battle The Army of The Myth and write anther non-fiction book.  Even though I kind of want to.

And yet, I'm also saying "you are someone - if you see something lacking in the world, write your own damn book."

I acknowledge these two things don't necessarily jive.  But c'est la gare (that's the railway station).
 
Christopher Weeks
master gardener
Posts: 3337
Location: Carlton County, Minnesota, USA: 3b; Dfb; sandy loam; in the woods
1632
6
forest garden trees chicken food preservation cooking fiber arts woodworking homestead ungarbage
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The part they didn't like -- your reports of trial and findings was the most valuable part of the book!
 
Tereza Okava
gardener
Posts: 4001
Location: South of Capricorn
2130
dog rabbit urban cooking writing homestead ungarbage
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Alas, while some people are amazing, some people are absolutely horrible.
And the horrible people seem to have NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR TIME other than make other people miserable.

I love your email filter.
I make a point of keeping my profile EXTREMELY low, and also have a promise to myself: because people who write things like this are usually unhinged, I have no responsibility to read an email/message/listen to a voicemail/take a call of this nature. Not required. Allowed to hang up, dump, etc. For legal purposes I keep an email file (titled "Not Today Satan") where they are deposited and I never have to see them again if I prefer not to.

On the other hand, as a professional editor, one of my selling points is "the more mistakes I fix, the fewer people will write you letters." Unfortunately, if it isn't grammar, That Person will find something else to focus on, usually something that has NOTHING to do with you.

I'm glad you wrote that book, and may a mighty boil or three arise on the posterior of the person who wrote to you.
(and yay Elizabeth Zimmerman, whose patterns are too damn hard for me but one day I aspire to complete her sweater vests).
 
Judith Browning
Posts: 8921
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
2400
4
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I love your book!  as does the artist I gave one to.

On the other hand there are plenty of books I don't appreciate or even like but I would never consider writing the author and telling them how to change it to my liking!
 
K Kaba
pollinator
Posts: 194
Location: MD, USA. zone 7
69
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
There's more than a couple published authors in my social circle, and this is such a thing whether it's nonfiction or fiction. Among my friends it does seem to happen more when the author's name reads as female. Filtering and blocking handles most of it. If you do conventions or trade shows, checking with the organizers on whether particular stalkers are attending or asking to have them banned is not unheard of.
 
Jay Wright
Posts: 135
39
  • Likes 9
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
You actually wrote a book. You shared what you've learned for the benefit of others. You done good    To buggery with the naysayers! I was laughing with an American friend about people watching me knap an arrowhead. Five minutes ago they'd never heard of it, much less seen it done, and now they're offering suggestions. He replied that he'd had people watch him and then say That's not right- the "Indians" used to heat the rock and drip cold water where they wanted to remove a flake- my Daddy told me. He learned to sound interested and continue rather than correct them and have it devolve into You calling my daddy a liar?   People like that pop up everywhere and they certainly aren't worth losing sleep over.
 
Steve Zoma
Posts: 709
149
  • Likes 8 Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
There are two things I have learned as a writer:

1. Writing a book is VERY personal
2. People suck

Since it is easier to tear down then build up, those two items often cross.

I know I am never going to write a book that all people love. It is just not going to happen. It may not be their genre, their style, my voice being one they like, etc, and all that is okay. My books are not for some readers. But I got books to write and not people to placate. And saying that is no arrogant because the opposite is true. I have written books that I feel are my worst, and yet readers love them. The written word strikes people different ways. Just because you have people that do not like what you wrote does not mean you are a terrible writer.

You made three mistakes as a published author:

1. You gave a person that sucks an ear by replying back. No one would have sent 20, 3000 word emails a month if you had not replied back in some way. Those people exist so just ignore them. After the first email, why even read any more?

2. You took their words personally. Again people like to tear others down. Its clear: the man was jealous you were published and he was not. Never underestimate the power of jealousy. Anyone who is accomplished has jealous people who wish they were like them.

3. You are keeping a jealous person you are not even obligated to, from keeping future books and successes from happening. To me that is the real tragedy here. Books are extremely personal, so who cares what a few detractors think?

 
Jay Wright
Posts: 135
39
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Steve Zoma wrote:There are two things I have learned as a writer:

2. People suck



My Dad used to say "The more I know about people, the more I like my cows!".  
 
John F Dean
master steward
Posts: 6989
Location: southern Illinois, USA
2551
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig bee solar wood heat homestead
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I made the mistake of publishing research and presenting it at a conference.   I’m a slow learner, so it took a few times for me to realized I should stop doing that. Yes, I encountered the same people you mention, only face to face.   One individual, who was extremely persistent, I finally asked, “ Are you suggesting I should alter my findings to fit your preconceived notions?”  I am not sure if he liked me before that, but he certainly didn’t afterward.
 
r ranson
steward & author
Posts: 38460
Location: Left Coast Canada
13711
8
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Steve Zoma wrote:

You made three mistakes as a published author:

1. You gave a person that sucks an ear by replying back. No one would have sent 20, 3000 word emails a month if you had not replied back in some way. Those people exist so just ignore them. After the first email, why even read any more?





I almost never reply to emails. Not even important ones from people I like.  Certainly not to one like this.  (As mentioned in my post).

Eventually it became a curiosity.   Why would someone write that much into the void?
 
r ranson
steward & author
Posts: 38460
Location: Left Coast Canada
13711
8
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Maybe we got lost in the story.  I shared how it feels because if one hasn't written it's too easy to say "someone (you) should write such and such a book" and why those words are poison for getting the book one desires.



Someone should write this book...

... and I think "aren't you someone?"



A lot of times the only way to read the book you want, is to write it.

If someone as dyslexic and neigh illiterate, wholly dependent on electronic aid to write, as I am can write a halfway decent book, those who are so overflowing with words they can waste them on people who won't appreciate them, could write a better one.

The only qualification one needs is to think, someone should write a book about...

You are someone.
 
Nancy Reading
steward and tree herder
Posts: 8444
Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland. Nearly 70 inches rain a year
3997
4
transportation dog forest garden foraging trees books food preservation woodworking wood heat rocket stoves ungarbage
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

r ranson wrote:A lot of times the only way to read the book you want, is to write it.

(zip)

You are someone.



Thank you for your inspiring words r ranson. I actually did start writing a (fiction) book of the sort of book I wanted to read....perhaps I will be 'someone' enough to finish it off!  For some reason you also reminded me of Vera Rubin who said .

I didn't know a single astronomer, male or female. I didn't think that all astronomers were male, because I didn't know.


quote source: npr.org

you can write a book
source - french language sky photography 'blog

My take away from this is that our limits are in our minds. Yes! we could be the someone who writes that book that is needed (or be an astronomer*)




* insert aspirational career of your choice
 
Douglas Alpenstock
master pollinator
Posts: 4999
Location: Canadian Prairies - Zone 3b
1354
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Sad you were bombed by some sort of control freak. You are not responsible for other peoples' crazy, though it's hard to not be royally peeved.

This would be great raw material for a satirical work of fiction.
 
craig howard
pollinator
Posts: 421
Location: zone 5-5
148
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
First, congrats on writing a book.
Huge accomplishment.

I'm finding it's often the case that people who like to control others are covering for their lack of self control.
They lack the actual ability to control themselves.

They don't have the self-control required to write their own book.
And you do.
"You should" write a book about that haha, kidding.
 
Steve Zoma
Posts: 709
149
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Books are so unique; on a bookshelf they look so unassuming and obvious, but there is just so much that goes into writing one. Deeply personal stuff whether fiction or non-fiction, and then the amount of steps that it takes to turn ideas into typed words on pages with a cover. It is so much more than just 26 letters and 9 numbers rearranged into words, sentences, paragraphs and pages. It is the writers very soul!

And most readers do not understand just what it takes to make a book. Every paragraph, every chapter... a book can go in a different direction. Just because a reader would go in that direction does not mean the author was wrong. Its what makes the book what it is.

My inlaws are all attorney's and they so wrongly say, "no one gets fired more than an attorney does", but that is so untrue. No one gets fired as often as writers. With every book picked up, the back read to see if someone wants to read it, and put back on the shelf, that author is essentially fired. And for every half read book, the author is also fired. Not to mention the two biggest lies in the world are, "the check is in the mail:, and "Oh I read all the time. Give me your book and I'll read it". Just because we don't see who put down the book does not mean we are not fired as writers.

I think just accepting that is part of being a writer. And I understand, your soul gets poured out into each book, and to be subjected to criticism on such a personal, emotionally invested level is hard. But as Permiculture teaches, "The problem is the answer". Just as most of us give honest, real-world advice on these forum replies and get rebuked terribly from time to time, over the years we have taught more, and done good than the detractors have ever taken away. And just as we should keep on giving authentic advice on forum replies, we should keep writing books that have soul.

I shudder at the thought of no books, or no replies on this forum.

 
Steve Zoma
Posts: 709
149
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
By the way, fictional writers endure the same flak from readers. We are not attacked on our expertise, but are on our creativity and ability to research.

Such questions as the following are often asked:

Why did you end the novel there?
Why did a character climb up here on page 276 if she was scared of height? I am scared of height and I would not do that?"
Why did you mention dynamite. It was a story set in 1865 and dynamite was not invented until 1866.

It goes on and on too. And you just want to scream, "this is a fictional story you know?"

But in that there is also affirmation. Through creativity I have created something that never existed. People who did not exist, doing things that do not exist, in places that do not exist, and yet through it all, the imagery and characters are so realistic, that readers feel like they did.  So you don't stop. Maybe you write a trilogy to carry out a great story a few more times? Maybe a trilogy focuses on other minor characters? Maybe it really should have ended where it did, but woe is me if I let a few detractors keep me from gracing my fans with more books.

When you stop, you have let those detractors win, and then everyone loses because all books, fiction or non-fiction is awesome to have in the world. I am convinced, even at 1 million new books a year, the world needs more books. Myself, I average four a year and I am not stopping anytime soon. I got more stories to offer to the world. It is their choice if they accept the gift of my books or not.
 
Dl Tolleson
Posts: 15
3
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Okay, I'll admit up front that I might have missed it. But anyway, what is the "myth" accepted as "fact?"
  And while I'm at it, my girlfriend has just stumbled across the whole "linen is great for you" thing--all of which is new to me. And then she saw a great deal about 100% linen sheets at a Habitat for Humanity store. But that turned out to be bogus because the "made in China" product was composed of other materials.
  All of which leads me to ask, is linen all that great for you?
  I mean, I thought cotton and wool were pretty darned awesome.
 
r ranson
steward & author
Posts: 38460
Location: Left Coast Canada
13711
8
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Myth accepted as fact.
It's about something new I'm learning.   I kept it deliberately vague because just about every area of our life has some sort of dogma holding us back. When we take the time to ask "where did that fact come from?" we learn so much.

Maybe others have had similar experiences.
 
Ela La Salle
Posts: 285
67
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I don't know anything about your book. You wrote it, you have it  published, people liked it. That's positive and awesome!
But situation you described, apply to many if not all, scenarios in daily living. There will always be those who don't just think  they can do better, but are convinced they can.
Kind of fanatical  "...the way, the truth, the life" crap.

Maybe you could gather all those e-mails from "that guy", share your observations, make some fun,  and so on... and write a comic book, and send it to him LOL
Anyways, thanks for sharing. I did giggle at some parts
 
Td Roadsend
Posts: 14
Location: Northern BC
1
chicken pig homestead
  • Likes 9
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

John F Dean wrote:I made the mistake of publishing research and presenting it at a conference.   ...  I finally asked, “ Are you suggesting I should alter my findings to fit your preconceived notions?”  I am not sure if he liked me before that, but he certainly didn’t afterward.




As a researcher (PhD candidate) I feel this HARD.  LOL
Since beginning my homesteading journey I am seriously considering changing my focus, there is a lot right here that I want to explore.
 
John F Dean
master steward
Posts: 6989
Location: southern Illinois, USA
2551
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig bee solar wood heat homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Td,

I encourage you to complete your doctorate.   It will open doors. Then you can use those opportunities to advance your agenda.
 
Douglas Alpenstock
master pollinator
Posts: 4999
Location: Canadian Prairies - Zone 3b
1354
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
To the OP, mulling this over, it occurs to me that the crackpots and the complainers are actually signalling this single distilled fact: your words have power.
 
Steve Zoma
Posts: 709
149
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:To the OP, mulling this over, it occurs to me that the crackpots and the complainers are actually signalling this single distilled fact: your words have power.



To be fair, ALL words have power and that is why we must be careful in whom we converse with, associate with, and research and look up. Because it’s not just our words but also other people’s. Like anything with so much power it can be used for good or bad.

It maybe something as innocent as “middle class” but then as we grow accustomed to it we begin to shift our focus and gauge ourselves on whether or not we are  at above or below that preconceived idea we’re were given. That is just two simple words, now start listening to other phrases and you get an idea how much words manipulate us: for good, bad, arrogance and guilt.

Even in fiction words have power, like the book made into a movie “China Syndrome”. That one movie, just before 3 mile island, took out an entire industry for decades. Ironically, now by words… the need to power the artificial intelligence data centers, 3 mile island is being taken out of moth balls.

Being a writer is not for the faint of heart. Through both fiction and non-fiction we put a lot of ourselves into our books that show our character. Never underestimate the power of jealousy coupled with the knowledge that it is always easier to tear down then build up.
 
Bring me the box labeled "thinking cap" ... and then read this tiny ad:
2024 Permaculture Adventure Bundle
https://permies.com/w/bundle
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic