Looking for more heirloom Irish and Swedish seeds to help reclaim my community's past.

Good morning friends! How are you? Blake is looking for more help in acquiring more Irish and Swedish heirloom crops to restore and reclaim his community's past in Chicago this year and beyond to edify everyone. So far for the Irish, I got Buan onions, Daniel O Rourke and Prean peas, Lumper, Shamrock and Cups potatoes, skirret, corn salad and Delway kale and nothing yet for the Swedish. Looking for more stuff from the Middle Ages to the early 1900s to make my gardens more historic. Any idea which crops Irish immigrants had after they came to America years ago? My late grandpa has some Irish ancestry from my pop's side. If there's anything anybody wants to add, please reach me over here and we can discuss more in the Purple Mooseage about my interests in these crops and we go from there. Take care!

I once heard of a Hopi elder saying that once a seed leaves Hopiland that it ceases to be Hopi. I wonder if the same thing would apply to a Swedish variety grown in Chicago? In any case, after hundreds of years, I don't expect a variety to carry the same genetics, even if it carries the same name.

Hey Joseph! Never heard of that statement before. Can't understand what that means. You said that crop was once Hopi is not Hopi anymore. What do you mean by that?

For example, in dealing with corn... The Hopi elder's claim was that the corn is only Hopi corn if it is grown by the Hopi on Hopi land. Once it is no longer grown by the Hopi people, and/or no longer grown on Hopi land, the corn ceases to be Hopi.

Genetically, that makes a lot of sense to me. Because, as soon as a crop leaves it's traditional homeland, and is no longer cultivated by the traditional methods, it undergoes dramatic genetic change in order to cope with the new environment and farmer's habits. No matter how much we may wish for the old varieties, I believe that they expired centuries ago, and were replaced by something else.

That's understandable. I'm doing my best to grow the current varieties originally from the original owners who grew them centuries or decades ago, them return them back to their ancestors and their families who are still alive today and know plenty about them. Anybody growing some of ancient stuff today in Ireland and Sweden? One of the varieties I'm looking for is the Gortahork cabbage and anybody heard of that type before? It's gigantic and close to tasting very sweet and it's found only in Ireland by Irish Seed Savers. Anybody know anybody from that organization who grows many Irish varieties? And is there anybody else in the world who grows the cabbage and other Irish types? Thanks!

I'm on the more relaxed side of things when sorting out the heritage of heirloom varieties, especially in cases where people have "lost" their carefully selected seeds as they lost their lands and their kids moved into cities and quit growing food. The examples that I really love are ones like the discovery that Otto File, a prized polenta corn that has been grown in Italy for close to 200 years, was the same corn that had gone extinct in its cradle of New England as the tribes who had grown it were marginalised and the settler farmers turned to higher-yielding types. Or the winter run Chinook salmon from the McCloud River that were used to start an industry here in Aotearoa while their native population was cut off by the Shasta dam, but 100 years later one of the hāpu in the South Island gifted them back to the Winnemem Wintu to re-establish in their ancestral waters.

If the people who have the cultural connection to these seeds and fish say they are the real deal, and the genetic markers back them up, I'm not going to argue over technicalities.

Good example of the Otto corn which used to be grown by Native Americans in New England before it has been brought by Italian settlers centuries ago. Any stories of its comeback in New England as a true heirloom? I'm doing the same for my Potawatomi crops and stuff in Chicago to help everybody remember their true past and the stories that come with them. Example I'm growing some Potawatomi Lima and Ohio pole beans which used to belong to the Miami and Potawatomi people and they still grow those today in Michigan and Indiana. You hear of the Irish potato famine of the 1800s? The Lumper, which was tied to that time was almost wiped out due to the disease and have you heard of the potato before? If there any Irish folks following Permies before, please drop by and share your ancestors experiences with crops grown by your people in your homeland and in the diaspora especially in America today. As I told you all I have a late grandfather who died in 2013 or 2014 from my dad's side who has Irish ancestry in his blood. I'm doing all I can to find more Irish crops whether in Ireland or with families and ancestors in the diaspora so I can bring back memories of my grandpa's past to carry me on to this day. Good night!

Good evening,

I just stumbled upon this post while looking for Daniel O'rourke peas for the summer.

There are a lot of heritage varieties from Sweden. I think they were pretty good with genbank collections and there are also seed saving organisations like Svenska Sesam where enthusiasts exchange seeds.

A good Swedish pea to recommend is train driver bergfeldts giant pea. It is an unusually large mange tout pea. There are a lot of Swedish heritage peas though since it was an important crop for humans as well as animals in the region.

It sounds like you have the Irish side quite well covered. Perhaps consider to add Gortahork cabbage since it has a potentially intriguing history https://www.seedsovereignty.info/where-giants-grow/

Life is change and it is arguable constant change that is the authentic experience spanning generations. Not the exact flavour or plant growth of a variety in a specific year. Those moments are as lost as Rutger Hauer's poetic tears in the rain in the movie Blade Runner.

Growing some heritage varieties is a great tradition to have and a great way to remember the past. Best of luck with the project.

What's happening friend! Trying to find some help in acquiring the giant Gortahork cabbage from Ireland to cement my great grandparents memories and legacies to help remember my late dad who passed away this year.
Couldn't find anybody in Ireland or in the U.K who I know of and am new to the other side of the world. Looking for somebody from Ireland or Britain from Permies to help me acquire the historic cabbage so I can get a chance to grow that big beauty in the spring. Have a happy new year!

Don't know if it's the giant variety you're looking for but Brown Envelope Seeds in Ireland has Gortahork cabbage seeds. Here's a link for you https://brownenvelopeseeds.ie/products/gortahook-cabbage

I just been over there and tried to reach out to one of the Irish folks about the cabbage, but they won't ship directly to America due to custom issues and these things. It's a mountainous challenge right now to bring stuff from overseas especially for smaller things. I don't know anybody from over there and there's nowhere else in the world to find the cabbage since it's only found in Ireland.
Is there anybody else on Permies who grows the huge and historic cabbage?
If anybody is growing those, please reach me at the Purple Moosage to discuss more ways on how I could get the crop without going directly to Brown Envelope or any other seed company in Ireland or Britain. Did my best to reach out to a few more folks, but no luck. Take care.