• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies living kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • raven ranson
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Julia Winter
garden masters:
  • Anne Miller
  • Pearl Sutton
  • thomas rubino
  • Bill Crim
  • Kim Goodwin
  • Joylynn Hardesty
gardeners:
  • Amit Enventres
  • Mike Jay
  • Dan Boone

simple fence  RSS feed

 
Posts: 31
Location: coastal oregon
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello-

I have 4 little fruit trees and a couple little "guilds" a la Edible Forest Gardens set up.  Last year the trees (apple and pear) were assaulted but the numerous elk and deer in our area.  They survived, somehow, and the new buds are just starting to re-appear.

I want to put up a simple fence around the area.  It seemed very modest and small when I paced it out and put T posts on the corners.  I've seen others in this area using T posts to support a large "hoop" of fencing around little trees like this. 

My space is shaped like a P or the state of Idaho, sortof a blob with a panhandle.  The long side is 100', and the blob is 50', and the panhandle is 10'.

Again, looking out the window or while on the ground, it seems really small.  But I see references to needing to brace corners, and T posts every 10 feet, etc. 

So here are my questions:

1) If I do it quick and dirty, no corner bracing, using 4' fence on 6' T-posts sunk 2 feet, will it flop over?  I know that 4' is not tall enough to keep elk out, but I was thinking of then adding bamboo poles to the corners and running fishing line or trellis netting above the 4' fencing.

2) If I -do- need bracing on the corners, what is the best way to go in getting it done alone and rapidly?  I have seen the clips that allow extra T-posts to be diagonal and horizontal braces, but they are quite spendy and hard to find in this area.  Wooden posts seem like overkill for such a small area.

3) Would it be better in this case to just make rings around each tree?

any guidance appreciated.  I just don't have the experience in seeing bad fences to know if I can get away with something quick and dirty here or if I need to consider this a "real" fence and play by all the rules.
 
gardener
Posts: 1948
Location: PNW Oregon
31
books chicken duck food preservation forest garden hugelkultur trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
1) If I do it quick and dirty, no corner bracing, using 4' fence on 6' T-posts sunk 2 feet, will it flop over?  I know that 4' is not tall enough to keep elk out, but I was thinking of then adding bamboo poles to the corners and running fishing line or trellis netting above the 4' fencing.

Of course this will depend a bit on the weight of your 'fencing' materials, the heavier the material the more braces/posts you'll need, in the corners and along the line.  I will assume you are going to use wielded-wire or something lighter, and that you will NOT be wrapping your wire around your corner posts - in this case T-posts every 6' to 8' are fine, with one used for the corners.  If you are using only chicken wire you can get away with plastic, metal stakes instead of T-posts.

T-posts that will have extra things pulling or leaning on them will move, so those used are doorways or corners with rope/twine will need some type of bracing.  This doesn't have to be extreme just what's needed for the particular situation.


2) If I -do- need bracing on the corners, what is the best way to go in getting it done alone and rapidly?  I have seen the clips that allow extra T-posts to be diagonal and horizontal braces, but they are quite spendy and hard to find in this area.  Wooden posts seem like overkill for such a small area.

First, proper fencing depends much more on the critter and use than on the area size to be fenced. 

I agree with the over-kill feeling.  Deer don't throw their weight around like say a goat, bear or even a dog running at a target - this is good news for your situation, as you say you can add bamboo polls (I used recycled floor molding strips for the same thing) and run a light weight netting or rope to address the jumping issue.  Since you'll be pulling this tight, some bit of bracing will prevent your corner posts from leaning.

If you don't have kids, animals, etc. that will lean on your fencing then you could use lighter/cheaper plastic/metal stakes instead of T-posts, and only use the heaver T-posts in the corner bracing.....  Or find a source of recycled materiel for free that will meet your bracing needs while saving you some of the $. 

A nice looking fence, that needs to stand up to many different things, such as neighbors pets/animals and children as well as yours, should have corner bracing.  If you are really only addressing deer and your trees then I would only protect those - saving time and money.

3) Would it be better in this case to just make rings around each tree?

IMO - Yes 

 
Posts: 2603
44
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
with a little ingenuity you can use t-posts to create some simple cornerposts so that you could apply some light tension on the fence to make it more attractive and sturdier. some pipe with a 45 angle adaptor that would fit over the top of the t-post and angle to the ground would give some added stability. another option is to stake out the corners. drawing a tight line from the top of the t-post to a deep stake to help it stay upright.

I have finagled many a fence. it is always better to do it right the first time if you can but if circumstances don't permit then you can rig up something and just understand and accept its limitations both in keeping animals in or out and its useful lifespan.

if money isn't the problem and you are thinking that it would just be easier consider you might be surprised that building fence "right" isn't that much harder then building a rigged contraption and it involves considerably less frustration over the long term.
 
robert campbell
Posts: 31
Location: coastal oregon
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks for the replies folks...  We have a new baby so my time is precious this season (I was naive in my calculations on what would be required this spring).  I think I will just do some hoops of field fencing with a couple T-posts for support around each tree and hope they make it until I can do a "real" fence around them all. 
 
Posts: 395
Location: northern california, 50 miles inland from Mendocino, zone 7
2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Elk are a lot more difficult than deer if the fence isn't stout.    Make sure they can't get snared by the wire.
 
pollinator
Posts: 4437
Location: North Central Michigan
12
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
there is some really cool black net fencing that is available and sold as deer fencing..it can be held on some pretty flimsy  posts and the deer don't like it cause they can't judge it..

if you put it around each of the trees as a guard it should work for deer and rabbits..but it might not be enough for rodents..you may need something around the bottom few inches for them if they are a problem
 
Posts: 427
Location: Hartbeespoort, South Africa
2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

mantid wrote:
I have 4 little fruit trees and a couple little "guilds" a la Edible Forest Gardens set up.  Last year the trees (apple and pear) were assaulted but the numerous elk and deer in our area.  They survived, somehow, and the new buds are just starting to re-appear.

I want to put up a simple fence around the area.  It seemed very modest and small when I paced it out and put T posts on the corners.  I've seen others in this area using T posts to support a large "hoop" of fencing around little trees like this. 



This link might interest you.... An effective and more economic way to keep deer away from trees.

Chelle
 
robert campbell
Posts: 31
Location: coastal oregon
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Has anyone tried that fencing on the ground approach?  Looks intriguing although sortof a pain for "guild" type arrangements which are already in place.
 
pollinator
Posts: 491
Location: Burton, WA (USDA zone 8, Sunset zone 5) - old hippie heaven
2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Yes, fence panels on the ground would work - I'd find a way to raise the fence panels a few inches off the ground, that would really work. Animals are cautious about where they put their feet - that's why paint cattle guards work nearly as well as the real thing.

Our land is in free-range country, so cows are constantly wandering through. And we have lots of deer. We also had lots of tree branches lying around from a clearing project. So I piled the branches on the ground, around the plants I wanted to protect, out to about six feet on all sides. It has worked pretty well. Looks a lot better than the screaming orange safety netting wrapped around blue plastic barrels that was the previous solution to the problem! Not to mention being cheaper than panel fencing.
 
Posts: 81
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Using shotcrete, you can create a spray-in-place reinforced concrete fence 2" thick , 8' high for $2.50/foot.
 
Amateurs built google. Professionals built the titanic. We can't find the guy that built this tiny ad:
It's like binging on 7 seasons of your favorite netflix permaculture show
http://permaculture-design-course.com/
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!