Hi All, I building a food forest and wanted to know, if I found some old fallen trees or limbs and rolled them over, could I use that myobiliia sp? Could I shovel some of that up and transfer it to my berms and if so, what would there be the benefits. Would they just die without the wood host? Should I transfer both the soil and the branch? What other fungi can be naturally found that would be beneficial? Thanks
yes yes I don't know YES I don't know(since I'm not in FL)
Get stuff from as healthy a forest as you can find, yet with similar conditions as you. I brought in soil from my woods, and also rotten wood to innoculate my graden soil. I also use logs to edge beds, and have noticed shrooms popping up on the logs a few years later--dont' know what they are, but there they are!
There is SO MUCH in a shovel full of forest soil though! I put about 3" worth of soil on top of my beds.
My Blog, Natural History and Forest Gardening www.dzonoquaswhistle.blogspot.com "Listen everybody, to what I gotta say, there's hope for tomorrow, if we wake up today!" Ted Nugent "Suck Marrow" Henry D Thoreau
wylde thang, i like your crazy begining to your reply. i think if they grow on logs you should give them some wood to eat in your garden, they obviously love eating wood paul Stamets says saprofitic mushrooms grow on dead matter. Then you have parasitic fungi that live on live trees. Some parasitic ones live on the tree after its dead too. You want to look up your mushroom and find out if its parasitic or saprofitic before moving them. Feild mushrooms eat cowmuck and they aren't the only ones that like muck. Some mushrooms live on live roots of plants benefiting the plant and the mushroom they are called not saprofitic or parasitic but a type of fungi called mycorrhyzae they are hard to move. PUt their mushrooms into a bucket full of water for a day or two and pour it over the ground where the sort of tree they like grows. Paul Stamets suggests putting down mulch on your garden if you want fungi, wood chips or bits of cardboard then they come on their own though maybe not the type you want probably ones that are good for bettering your soil though. He teaches you to grow them growing them in cardboard, they like its glue, by wetting the cardboard and taking off the outer coats to get the corrugated one and putting the feet of mushrooms the bit of the stalk with a bit of root on it with bits of root if possible or two, among the wet cardboard in a carboard box with a air hole or two. You could put in some spores too you can get the spores by putting mushrooms on a sheet of paper for twelve hours their spores fall out on the paper and you can put the paper with a spore print on it in with the feet of the mushrooms and the damp card board. You need to give them more cardboard if you see the ones you have been growing have eaten up the first lot. Then you put the mushroom roots called hyphae or mycelium you have grown among a deep covering of wood chips on your lawn and cover with more cardboard to protect the whole from the spores of wild mushrooms that shower down from the heavens on the to the earth the whole time. They don't like getting dry so dont put them out in a dry season nor frozen on the whole. Its a questions of getting the mushrooms or toadstools to take before the bacteria eat them up. Professional grow them in sterile conditions, like by cooking your hay that they will live off and having them in clean rooms. If you want them in the garden you are better off with ones that have grown on unsterilised cardboard that are strong against bacterial attacks. Sepp Holzer says that if he puts wood and chips and such in his hugglekulture berms then they are good for vegetables and if he puts in muck, as in manure, they grow mushrooms. agri rose macaskie.
If you have saprofitic mushrooms then they wont parasite the things on your bed. If you want to grow mushrooms you had better buy the book mycelium running or and look up growing mushrooms on the internet, my description was a bit hurried there are lots of details you need to know like you should but out a cardboard box full of growing mushroom hypha in to the garden in autumn autumn i think it was they don't do well trying to gett started in dry summer weather. agri rose macaskie.
Oooh so it's less simple than I though but yes definitely I need to buy Stamets book! Do the saprofitic fill the niche of the parasitic not allowing them to attack, thus functioning as protection or it's just my permafantasy? But of course if the saprofitic transmit nutrients, then this mean we'll have healty plants and therefore strong enough to fight the parasitic back, am I right? cheers
`sytec this is an answer i wrot to a question of your on another forum thread or what ever about burning your organic material on a certain moon so as to avoid molds that might hurt your plants. It is not for nothing we have ended up poisoning and burning all the life on earth, there is a danger that some disease will get the thing you are trying to grow if you dont poison or burn it.. I suppose organic gardening is complicated and involves identifying different types of mushrooms.that is why some people do very well like Sepp Holzer and others not so well. Also we have lost the knowledge for doing organic gardening and without the tradition that passes on lots of bits of informatio about things it is not easy. In permaculture you try to avoid a big focus of one type of parasites by mixing different plants so that the illnesses of one plant does not have big area of that plant they can proliferate on. And yes one parasite fungi or saprofitic fungi can knock out a p0arasitic, one paul stamets found that some less harmfull parasitic mushrooms colonise a plant faster than others and mentions infecting trees with cauliflower mushroom to put paid to honey fungus because he saw that cauliflower fungi outgrows honey fungus in a petri dish. He talks of another man doing the like with turkey tails fungus and it apparently working unless the trees got better for someother reason, so i have coverd my half ill apple trees with this fungus liquised in clay, turkey tails grow naturally in my garden on dead wood. One of the reasons for rotation farming is to stop the diseases that attack one crop getting too firm a hold on a peice of land. The mold that kills one plant will not get to big a hold as you only plant that crop every four years thats how this problem is dealt with in roation crop farming and in and in permaculture they use a medieval method of stopping a place from being full of the illnesses that kills one type of plant, which is not to grow your whole crop together but to spread it out around the garden so that say the cabbage white butterfly that eats cabbagewhites does nto find all its food in one spot so it wont maybe attack more than one cabbage as it wont it wont be so easy to find the cabbages. Killing everything to avoid problems has lead to other problems in the past, here iin Spain they do for all vegetation nearly with herbicides and purposefull overgrazing in order to guard against fire risk. People burn the vegetable material because ash is good for the ground and to stop disease. i have only heard of burning certain things like any branches effected by peach tree curl not all vegetation that has grown . Still we get carried away with precautionary measure and in the end we burn all potential organic materia that could enormously better our soil. We cover everything with pesticides just in case the insects eat our plants though the pesticides are cancerigenic. Mold is good and some mold is bad. It would be good to have psytek Paul Stamet says you can't get outdoor plants with out micorryhza on the roots, that is without aqccompanying fungifungi spores rain down from the sky all the time. Nothing is simple there are parasitic fungi and seedlings that are small and very delicate wil get killed by fungi or a lot of them will, on the other hand paul stamet sells seed that have been pre innoculated with micorryhal fungi and these seeds with their fungi grow better than other plants much bigger with better root systems. they tell you to grow seeds in sterile soil with no manure in it so as not to have fungi killing them off, and some people an woman from india says plant the seeds the cake of dried manure mixed with straw they use in India to burn and they will grow perfectly but that is manure that has been formed into cakes and dried fresh so it is not likely to be too full of fungi. Fresh manure has antiseptic properties. In india manure is so prized that there are rules as to whether it is the property of the owners of hte cows or of the owner of the land the cows where crossing when it was dropped it is collected imediatly. As there are some dangerouse fungi people start to get scared of all fungi and we end upn killing all fungi. I have known people who kill any sort of snake because they are scared of adders and that people who know what an adder looks like. The leaves in my grandmothers garden used to be swept in to sacks, burlap sacks and left out side to rot down into what was called leaf mold that could then be used on the garden., Mold is fungi good earth is full of fungus and some fungus are bad for plants. there is no easy way of gardening organically. you can't garden and never lose anything without destroying everything. Rose macaskie.
Brenda Groth mentions the custume of burning all dead matter to stop the wrong sorts of molds, she says she has no longer does it and her soils are building up a treat.
Does any one have a list of the wrong sorts of mold.
tradition does lead us wrong. For instance the use of herbicides and pesticides was at first intended as a way to stop bad plagues and ended up being used all the time as a precautionary measure. THis is not a good idea they are poisons my father worked for shell chemicals as a defense lawyer ofr them that means that if people got ill from their products he had to argue whether it was chells fault or not. He would not have pesticides and herbicides in the house and one of the places pesticides are mjost used is in the house. you can grow stuff on soils without organic matter by using a lot of chemical fertilisers but they cost a lot of money, i saw a documentary in which a lot of farmers went green because of the arguement that chemicals were to heavy a cost burden however your soil wont absorb and retain so much water another cost burden appears watering the plants. Here i Spain fear of fires turns the country into one big fire break and you can get them to admite it if you insist a bit that they clear all vegetation and over graze on purpose for fear of fires, you insist that it is a farming practicce hhere and they do start to say, "oh but its necessary". Why does not the mediterranean completely into a desert? Because when the land has been totally bared and lost all its soil to erosion, it gets left to the kind care of cystus plants till it gets better, THat woudl be ceanothus in california. agri rose macaskie.
n it is not dreamy permaculturists are telling serouse scientific and engineering type ideas in a way that will be easy for all though i dont believe in short cuts i believe in turning all the world into scietists that was my education at a grammar school you are al intelligent i will explain thigns and you can chose said my teachers in a bid to get us to have self respect and discipline to weigh un subject for ourselves, I say this as the music of some church gruop comes whafting through the window they dont approve of learning they apporve of sheep it is part of the modern world that there are no longer village yokel who are ignorant an dcap doffing just properly educated people whose opinions it is worth listening to one and all and that means with the disciplines to look up subjeccts and evaluate them. i dont like thae cruel sureriority tha tgoes with the old style, a world full of people so undereducated that you can take everythign they say with a pinch of snuff. Is tha teven an expression. Paul stamets is all of a scientist who does laboratory tests and worlks for the government on new substances to cure illnesses. ALl of a modern day alexandra fleming, as in the man who discovered anti biotic ssavign the lives of so many people. bill mollison is all of a sccientific whizz kid too. he makes it sound simple but he knows his science and that is complicated you just look up bioremediation and bacteria and uranium for example and then tell me it is not scientific. look up a sand filter and tell me its not scientific and the happy hippy star gazing rain gardens belong to the same sccientific knowledge of the behavior of microorganisms as asnd filters do i like science it is interesting and i like to be able t o give a seriouse back up to any theories i talk about. agri rose macaskie.