Natural Farming (deer)

yea i totally agree with that im just not sure they really have favorites! but like you said pretty much all the pressure on my ornamental and other tree/bush plantings has been when food is scarce.

i dont think my problem is as bad as some might have it because there are wild dogs around here and even tho they are probably mostly coyote they do seem to celebrate in numbers.

any suggestions on appeasing the deer? i figure dandelions but i do nothing to discourage them. i got so much purslane around here i would assume they like that.

yea i had them graze my paw paw. hadn't heard they are supposed to be safe. i only had 1. i just planted 25 seedlings so lets see how many make it.

i did however hear buttonbush http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=CEOC2 was supposed to be poisonous to everything and it appear the deer ate it last winter.

We get herds of 20+ deer going through our place - it would be a life's work to plant enough special food for them (plus food for humans and other domestic animals) 

H Ludi Tyler wrote:
We get herds of 20+ deer going through our place - it would be a life's work to plant enough special food for them (plus food for humans and other domestic animals) 

is your area devoid of predators?

boddah wrote:
is your area devoid of predators?

We're just recently getting more mountain lions in the area, but some people may be trapping them. 

Some of the deer are from Asia and I think their natural predators are tigers, which, thankfully, we don't seem to have at all! 

H Ludi Tyler wrote:
We're just recently getting more mountain lions in the area, but some people may be trapping them. 

Some of the deer are from Asia and I think their natural predators are tigers, which, thankfully, we don't seem to have at all!   

oh man i might be the only one but i so wish someone would introduce tigers and monkeys. chaos!! i probably am the only one but i always thought the best way to die would be via tiger. i dont think anything in this world, save a huge stone from above will kill you as efficiently as a tiger. i know the stone wont give you much adrenaline. and just think if you manage to kill the tiger you will be a hero.

boddah wrote:
oh man i might be the only one but i so wish someone would introduce tigers and monkeys. chaos!! i probably am the only one but i always thought the best way to die would be via tiger. i dont think anything in this world, save a huge stone from above will kill you as efficiently as a tiger. i know the stone wont give you much adrenaline. and just think if you manage to kill the tiger you will be a hero.

with a natural farming comes a natural man requires a natural death!!

boddah wrote:
i know i can research it but just figured id ask. as your comment implies, working dogs are never spayed or neutered are they? you see i really believe it is better for pet dogs, and it prevents testicular cancer, and unwanted dog reproduction. however i can see how you would want a full male or female with all the hormones and stuff for a working dog.

i partially disagree.  i like a bitch dog to be spayed.  she will be even more loyal,  less inclined to roam,  and i cant see where spaying her alters her personality and abilities.

as for a dog.  ive never had but one dog neutered and thats our lil yorkie house dog.  non of my other dogs have ever been neutered.  but im through with dogs.  IMO a bitch is a much better animal.  a dog will test you and always be a problem.  at least mine were.  but i cant honestly say if neutering a dog will make him a better or worse working dog.

boddah wrote:
oh man i might be the only one but i so wish someone would introduce tigers and monkeys. chaos!! i probably am the only one but i always thought the best way to die would be via tiger. i dont think anything in this world, save a huge stone from above will kill you as efficiently as a tiger. i know the stone wont give you much adrenaline. and just think if you manage to kill the tiger you will be a hero.

id like for them to be introduced also.....be some mighty fine hunting.

Fencing for deer?    I have seen deer clear 6' tall fences from a standing start. Minimum for a fence would have to be 7' or taller to do any good at all and that is gonna be expensive. That said you could fence in any seedlings until they got big enough the deer which are browsers are not going to kill them and depending on number or area save some on fencing costs. Thorny plants are not going to work well and could end up being more a pain to you than the deer. The best recomendation I have seen so far wasgetting a farm dog not necessarily a LGD but even a mixed up mutt (preferably with some hound in it) will work just fine. If you are worried about containment running an invisible fence (underground wire collar combo) or even a 4' fence and teaching the dog to remain inside it will work wonders. Aside from that I have heard human urine, any of a number of cayanne pepper mixes, cat urine, dog urine (in my opinion the best of the bunch), etc works but the number one thing most people miss is natural preditor urine. Something like coyote urine which can be found on many hunting supply websites would be best. Fox urine is not as good as foxes do not prey on deer so when getting this stuff you need to consider does this preditor eat deer. While personally I am not a fan of the varrious nettings because of the dangers to smaller animals listed above tenting over seedlings is a good way to protect them as well.

The biggest thing to consider though is how do you control the deer population returning them to a level where they are not such a nuisance. Around here large property farmers lease out thier property to hunting clubs or individuals. Some even go so far as to get nuisance permits allowing them to remove a certian number of deer during the off season. However the focus has shifted from the deer being a problem to hogs here and statewide hunters are encouraged to kill hogs on sight. Of course the options for deer managment and control drop as the size of your property shrinks and regulations regarding nusance deer removal and even hunting can be a headache in and of itself depending on where you live. The best recomendation I or anyone can or has given involves population reduction which can be as simple as filling your freezer or finding someone to do it for you and even give you some for your freezer. I am sure in your area there are numerous bowhunters who would be respectful of your property and love to help you with your problem. Lord knows my daughter's boyfriend keeps bugging me to help with mine   

deer love young aspen and canadian hemlock as winter food, if you cut a few of the dying aspen trees if you have them on your property in the spring, by fall they will have sent outa lot of young root sucker trees, and will provide a lot of deer food and rabbit..and if you grown canadian hemlocks, they will eat off of the lower branches..i have them all over and they eat only some of the needles on the lower branches as winter browse

thats sounds great. i should have a surplus of aspen shoots this year! i had never even seen bigtooth aspen before i moved here. i really love the bark on old trees. def one of my favorites. but the tree is largely useless for my purposes. though not enough so  to kill it all, for things like goats, deer!, coppice maybe, nurse tree.

i have no hemlock though they are fairly common around here. i got two from arbor day foundation and at least one is already way dead. i dunno what happen, like maybe a rabbit girdled it, or i did a p poor job planting it and there was too little soil contact. w/e i wanted it because its such a graceful tree.

I have found electric fencing to be very effective.  The top wire is 6+ feet off the ground.  But I also baited the wire with cloth strips dipped in apple juice every few days for the first month.  They know what apples are, so recognize the scent.  Hopefully they got the snot shocked out of them and give the orchard a wide berth.  So far, I'm winning.  It's all psychological.  They can jump an 8' fence if they're motivated.

Electric fencing is not stupidly expensive.

HTH,

troy