Elderberry toxicity and tinctures

I would love more clarity on the toxicity question involving fresh elderberry juice WITH SEEDS REMOVED--by crushing berries GENTLY then straining with a fine sieve. (I actually crush in a coarse sieve, then run it through a fine strainer to catch and remove the seeds.)

One article I read said they use fresh elderberry juice to make herbal remedies then dose it in small quantities. I have made and used elderberry elixir with no ill effects. I tincture raw berries in brandy or cognac (tastier and sweeter than vodka!--unless you love vodka) then doing several rounds of adding berries and/or juice til I have an elixir with lots of color and taste--no additional sweetening needed. There is just enough alcohol (which is still a lot) to keep the elixir from fermenting inappropriately. I take doses from a spoon to a swig, although someone I gifted elixir to (with a higher alcohol tolerance) drank more at a time.

I did some more internet research, and this is the first time I've seen articles about elderberry juice itself being a concern. Always before, articles just mentioned seeds, stems, and leaves as the issue. Why the change?

I realize cooking is the safest option. There is cooking for 15-20 minutes, which destroys a lot of the antioxidants but renders the seeds edible, then there's cooking the juice for 10 minutes,  which supposedly reduces the antioxidants by 10%, then there's pasteurizing, which is bringing it to 160 degrees F for 15 seconds, more to prevent bacterial contamination.

But what about
(a) raw Juice used immediately when fresh, and
(b) elixirs made either with fresh juice or fresh berries later strained out?

This year, I have a lovely bunch of home-grown California native black elderberries, and I made a small amount of raw juice by crushing the raw berries gently in a strainer. Tastes great and sweet just plain. I would love to do this with more of my elderberries. I already have a bunch of the elixir from last year, and I would like to use some without alcohol or vinegar. I feel like the fresh , raw juice has more healing qualities, but I also don't want to harm myself or anyone else.

Further clarity would be much appreciated!!

Hi there, can anyone help please. I am sure that virtually all my elderberries were black when I foraged them and poured 40% vodka over them, one inch above berries. When shaking daily, some of the berries appear to be very dark red? Is it possible for the alcohol to have had any effect on colour? Is it still safe to consume the tincture after six weeks of daily shaking? The berries that are not jet black, maybe 20% are very dark red almost purple. Thanks Emily

Best thing I've found to do with Elderberry to retain medicinal value and negate potential toxicity - by far - has been fermenting the berries by themselves in raw local honey. No water added, no crushing or heat processing. Just cover the berries in honey, and let time and wild yeast work their magic. The resulting liquid is like a sparkly and slightly runny syrup, and is lovely. It keeps for a long time in the fridge.

Emily - My own two cents: the color difference in your elderberries (provided you are confident in your ID) is normal and nothing to be concerned about. Though I don't tincture elderberry, elderberries in my experience don't ripen uniformly, and alcohol will show that up over time. It can be quite a trick to get all perfectly ripe berries into your basket - especially given how beloved they are to the birds, once truly ripe.  

In fact, I frequently find both flowers and berries in various stages of ripeness on a single tree. I read somewhere that they have evolved the staggered fruiting trait because they are so sought after by winged ones. If a hungry flock strips all the ripe berries from a tree, they still have a shot at producing viable seed with the ones still in process.

One tip is to look at the stems where they attach to the berries: dark stems and you are in the realm of ripe. Green stems - even with purple berries - and you've still got a bit to go. Either way, a few almost-but-not-quite ripe berries, won't spoil the batch.

Thank you Rio Rose! Very prompt and informative. I will try the honey suggestion also , as have excellent source of a variety of Portuguese Heritage Honey; my favourite being the beautifully bitter Arbutus, strawberry tree variety. Many Thanks Emily

A friend (84 year old woman) of mine gave me a similar tincture however, it’s been sitting almost a year rarely touched covered with a black cloth under her foot stool🧐 not one mushy elderberry… all she ask was if i can give her 3 2oz tinctures 🥰 of the 4 big bottles…my question is … how long can elderberry extract in vodka?

Coco, my feeling is this tincture will be okay microbiologically, I doubt any bacteria or mould will have been able to grow if the berries were completely covered by the alcohol. If it smells off or mould is visible on it, it's probably not safe.

There's debate about the safety of raw elderberry tincture or juice due to the cyanide compounds not being cooked out as they are in a syrup, but this depends who you listen to! I went to the CDC website to check on this, because I've used my elderberries both raw and cooked and wanted a definitive answer to the question for myself, too. Except of course there are no definitive answers. Everyone's body will metabolise things different, levels of cyanide may vary from season to season, different types of elderberry may have different levels.

Here's what I concluded:

The CDC "safe" cyanide level for an adult human is up to 0.04 mg/kg/day (https://wwwn.cdc.gov/tsp/MRLS/mrlslisting.aspx), and above that level health problems may occur with long-term exposure. These numbers are for permitted workplace exposure, so are likely to be well within the safe limits. From this site, https://nordicfoodlab.wordpress.com/2013/09/05/2013-8-hydrogen-cyanide/ "Raw elderberries can contain up to 3mg of potential HCN (in the form of glycosides) per 100g of fruit." They calculate that it would require 1.5kg of raw elderberries to kill someone. But what they didn't go on to say is that health problems can arise from chronic exposure to lower doses, so let's work out how much we can safely take a day.

Working from the CDC safe dose numbers, a 50 kg (110 pound) adult should be able to safely consume 67g  (2 ounces) of whole fresh raw elderberries a day with no health concerns at all. A 75kg (165 pound) adult should be able to safely consume 100g (3 ounces) of whole fresh raw elderberries per day. Dried elderberries would be a far lower amount, 100g of fresh berries equals 20g of dried. This is for Sambucus nigra fruit only and may not apply to other species of elderberry or other parts of the plant. Leaves and stems have higher cyanide levels and should be removed for anything that will use uncooked berries.

Which means a big glass of raw elderberry juice most likely wouldn't be safe, but a small amount of raw black elderberry juice (based on the "safe" weight of the fruit before pressing, not the finished juice) or a dropper or two of tincture is likely to be okay, even if taken every day.  

If the tincture's been steeping a long time, it's going to be stronger so certainly I'd use caution in dosing and start with a very low dose, and wouldn't give it to a child.

Anyone with liver problems or taking medications that are metabolised via the liver will be less likely to be able to convert cyanide into a harmless form that they can pee out of the body, so extra caution with raw elderberry would be needed.

So my conclusion is that for most adults, raw elderberry products should be safe provided the stated doses aren't exceeded.  But my numbers apply to the berries only, and Sambucus nigra only. To be 100% safe and sure, and definitely for children or anyone with impaired liver function, elderberries are safer cooked.