Paul Wheaton and Kelda Miller continue reviewing chapter 1 of Sepp Holzer's Permaculture (the book). Kelda will be teaching a class at Bastyr University. Paul recommends Mel Bartholow's Square Foot Gardening or those new to gardening, and both Toby Hemenway's Gaia's Garden and Sepp's Book. Kelda recommends the book Food Not Lawns. Paul believes in having lawns. Sepp writes that microclimates help all species find their natural balance. They keeps one species from dominating and taking over. Kelda defines edge as the meeting of 2 different systems. Sepp looks for the little edges and microclimates, even though he has a lot of land. Kelda says that permaculture is about making homes. Paul shares how much Sepp has travelled, especially in a lot of dry, eroded, and fallow places. As a plan of action to restore these places, he would use pioneer trees to help later establish fruit trees, then chop the pioneer trees down. Paul compares Sepp to Salatin and Fukuoka. Sep writes on the value of creating suntraps and windbreaks in the Scottish Highlands. He talks about introducing texture to flatlands, as well as terracing. Paul and Kelly talk about water retention. Sep writes on the importance of preserving topsoil when you dig. Paul mentions how noxious weeds "heal" monocrops. Sepp writes on soil pH and earth worms. Sepp is not a fan of making hay, but gets some from his neighbor. Paul describes Salatin's approach to haying less often.