Forum:

asian natural farming

LAB - Can I obtain the starter microrganisms from other than rice?

Fabio Rinaldi

Posts: 51

Location: Rome, Italy

I like...

posted 7 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Hello,
i was wondering wheter i can obtain the starter microrganism from other than organic rice. I grew organic chickpeas, and i would like to start a LAB culture from them.

Thank you,
F.

Gurkan Yeniceri

pollinator

Posts: 231

Location: Australia, Canberra

I like...

posted 7 years ago

1
Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Fauna would be different but it will still work. Chickpea would be vigorous as it also has S. cerevisia yeast.

Canberra Permaculture - My Blog - Wild Cheesemaking - Aquaponics - Korean Natural Farming

Fabio Rinaldi

Posts: 51

Location: Rome, Italy

I like...

posted 7 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Thanks for the reply. I really can't understand why people commonly use rice instead of local raw materials. With LAB you haven't to multiply indigeneous organisms, but i don't know how much is ok to multiply organisms on rice that come so far..

Thanks.

Bryant RedHawk

gardener

Posts: 6835

Location: Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5

1760

I like...

posted 7 years ago

2
Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

When you use rice for LAB, you first wash it then you cook it until it starts to soften (very al dente) this starts some of the starches converting to sugars.
Since you then bury the rice in good soil many of the desired microorganisms migrate to the rice to feed upon the complex sugars you converted from the starch.

So as long as what you are using can be converted to sugars partially, you can promote microorganisms to come and populate your "given food".

Even beans can be used for LAB, you just have to know which process to use and how to use it to get to sugars.

Don't forget that lab stands for Lactobacillus (found in milk).

My people make offerings to the earth mother at spring planting time and again at fall planting of milk, honey, ground corn and tobacco.
When you look at which microorganisms are present in and on these materials, we have always built the microbiome of the soil we plant in.

Redhawk

List of Bryant RedHawk's Epic Soil Series Threads We love visitors, that's why we live in a secluded cabin deep in the woods. "Buzzard's Roost (Asnikiye Heca) Farm." Promoting permaculture to save our planet.

Fabio Rinaldi

Posts: 51

Location: Rome, Italy

I like...

posted 7 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Hello,
I believe the microbiome will migrate on/in the given food just if there are 'food' elements like happens in Nature. Cooking rice means unlocking starch from the rice kernels, so it can be available for microrganisms...because starch is a complex sugar.

Thanks for your reply, i haven't never found something abot LAB made with something that's not rice.

Fabio

Bryant RedHawk

gardener

Posts: 6835

Location: Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5

1760

I like...

posted 7 years ago

2
Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

hau Fabio, The reason all the literature on LAB is rice based is because the idea was conceived in Japan, a rice growing country.

Chances are that if it had been conceived in Ireland, potatoes would be the material base of the growing of LAB.
If it had been thought up in South America, corn would probably be the base growing medium.

Redhawk

Fabio Rinaldi

Posts: 51

Location: Rome, Italy

I like...

posted 7 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Thanks.

Aaron Neville

pollinator

Posts: 436

I like...

posted 6 years ago

1
Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Also, white rice is a simple starch, easy for bacteria to consume and colonize, whether for making LAB or IMO-1.

Check out my newest project at http://www.stadtfarm.com http://www.twitter.com/stadtfarms or https://www.facebook.com/StadtFarm/

Su Ba

pollinator

Posts: 2189

Location: Big Island, Hawaii (2300' elevation, 60" avg. annual rainfall, temp range 55-80 degrees F)

1112

I like...

posted 6 years ago

2
Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

I'm more of a K.I.S.S. sort of person. Instead of collecting micro organisms via the rice thing, I simply used a shovel and a 5 gallon bucket to collect the micro organism rich soil and brought it back to my farm. I used this soil when creating my compost piles, thus providing them with a rich ideal environment to reproduce rapidly.

I attended a multi day Korean Farming event with Cho doing the instruction. I came away from the event with a few ideas that I incorporated into my own homestead farm. But I saw the rice collection method as being more complicated than needed. So I collected soil from my chosen sites, transported it in a way that the microbes wouldn't die, and incorporated it into my compost within the day.

It's never too late to start! I retired to homestead on the slopes of Mauna Loa, an active volcano. I relate snippets of my endeavor on my blog : www.kaufarmer.blogspot.com

Fabio Rinaldi

Posts: 51

Location: Rome, Italy

I like...

posted 6 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Su Ba wrote:I'm more of a K.I.S.S. sort of person. (...).

Sure, you're getting the whole microbiome. I don't know if it works successfully, if you don't multiply it...but yes you're using what's at the base of the JMS method.

F.

Su Ba

pollinator

Posts: 2189

Location: Big Island, Hawaii (2300' elevation, 60" avg. annual rainfall, temp range 55-80 degrees F)

1112

I like...

posted 6 years ago

2
Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Fabio, the microbes multiply in the compost piles far more so than in a small box of cooked rice. My compost bins hold one cubic yard of material. And I have 30 bins working at various composting stages. Thus I am promoting a lot, lot of soil microbe growth. I also have inoculated my hugelcultur style pits with these soil microbes, and the evidence of their growth in these pit style beds is easy to see.

The proof of whether or not my system works is in actual use on my farm. My homemade compost is one of my main fertilizer sources. By using compost along with my other growing methods, I have turned depleted, non-fertile dirt into fertile garden soil which now grows most of our food plus extra for selling, trading, and giving away.

I have learned that once I have collected healthy soil microbes, and properly maintain them, I do not need to go out and gather more. The trick is to properly house and feed the soil microbes. Plus, over time, the best microbes for my farm are the ones that survive and thrive here.

It's never too late to start! I retired to homestead on the slopes of Mauna Loa, an active volcano. I relate snippets of my endeavor on my blog : www.kaufarmer.blogspot.com

Fabio Rinaldi

Posts: 51

Location: Rome, Italy

I like...

posted 6 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Hello Su Ba,
I'm sure and happy your microbes are multiplying, but I was referring to JMS, it's the Jadam Microbiological Solution, you take non chlorinated water, raw salt, soil from the mountains and a potato like food source for microbes. In this way you'll multiply microbes before pouring them into your composting bins. This means saving time and pour them in abundance!

However I'm curious, if you can share a photo your compost bins!

Ciao,
Fabio

Ps. Checked your blog..are the pallets boxes?

Su Ba

pollinator

Posts: 2189

Location: Big Island, Hawaii (2300' elevation, 60" avg. annual rainfall, temp range 55-80 degrees F)

1112

I like...

posted 6 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Here's a couple pictures of some compost boxes. They are made by nailing 3 pallets together and using a fourth as a door. The pallet box is lined with plastic, because the compost otherwise dries out too quickly where I live. The box holds a cubic yard of packed material, which composts down to about 1/3 the original volume by the time I'm ready to use it. I layer a wide variety of organic material as I make the compost, adding some added amendments as I go along -- coral sand, lava sand, ocean water, biochar, charred bone, wood ash, and a few shovelfuls of mature compost & garden soil. Organic material = weeds, brush trimming, tree leaves, grass clippings, pond plants, garden waste, chicken pen litter, feathers, sheep manure, donkey manure, waste foods that the chickens or pigs won't eat, dead animals not suitable for chicken feed. Woody or tough vegetative material gets ground up using a lawnmower.

By inoculating the pile with active mature compost & my garden soil, I can continue to reproduce soil microbes that are specific for my location.

image.jpeg

It's never too late to start! I retired to homestead on the slopes of Mauna Loa, an active volcano. I relate snippets of my endeavor on my blog : www.kaufarmer.blogspot.com

Fabio Rinaldi

Posts: 51

Location: Rome, Italy

I like...

posted 6 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Thanks..nice setup. So don't you mix the pile. right?

Su Ba

pollinator

Posts: 2189

Location: Big Island, Hawaii (2300' elevation, 60" avg. annual rainfall, temp range 55-80 degrees F)

1112

I like...

posted 6 years ago

1
Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

No, I don't bother to mix it. It is well layered as the pile is being made.

I use a lightweight rototiller (a Mantis cultivator) to harvest the compost out of the box, instead of using a shovel or fork. The tiller mixes and fluffs it up. I immediately use it in my gardens. BUT if I were to put it back into a compost box, the material would heat up again. I've done that when I first started gardening, but I no longer do it. It's extra time and work that I can't afford to do. I'm always short of time. And I'm in my 70s, so I don't appreciate doing extra work. I like to keep things simple as long as they work for me. So I don't mix the compost pile, since the system works fine without mixing.

It's never too late to start! I retired to homestead on the slopes of Mauna Loa, an active volcano. I relate snippets of my endeavor on my blog : www.kaufarmer.blogspot.com

Fabio Rinaldi

Posts: 51

Location: Rome, Italy

I like...

posted 6 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Su Ba wrote:No

Goodmorning Mr. Su Ba,
I have in mind to re-built my compost pile because hens created a disaster spreading all the compost around the place where it *should* to be. I liked your and your composting method and I want to create some.

There are some suggestions you can give from your experience? Location...structure...future maintenance...door..

For example I can't understand the kind of plastic film you used and how did you fix to the structure.

Thanks!!
Fabio

Time is mother nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once. And this is a tiny ad:

Our PIE page has been updated, anybody wanna test?

https://permies.com/t/369340/PIE-page-updated-wanna-test