Dale Nute

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since Apr 06, 2016
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Recent posts by Dale Nute

Missed this the first time around but it showed up in the daily batch so I suppose it is fair game for a response.  
Full disclosure, I have not tried it myself so I may fall in your first category.
However, there is a wealth of difference between the Old World farming and the New World farming approaches.  I suspect that the New World type has not been adequately described but lacking draft animals, their farming only required a few hand tools.  Other than fire, clearing land was a real pain so digging a hole for each plant was the solution.  It also did not open up the soil to create the mud problems although weeds were a problem I'm sure.  Vining plants were easier to deal with, either because they went vertical as in Seminole Pumpkins or sprawled as ground cover and weed & moisture control as is the three sisters approach.  
Adopting the New World approach as a simple way to start is attractive as it involves only a shovel, hoe, rake and maybe a grub axe and pruning saw.  And a mindset change.      
Part of our solution may be found in Seth Holzer's approach rather than the tidy garden approach of his mother as he described.  I struggle with the idea that gardens have to have rows as that was my folk's design and always fall back on that design although Nature seems to eventually convert my attempts to her design.  
Feeling we have to produce a lot of produce to prove our worth also is a complicating mindset.  That may just be a mindset passed down from parents who lived through the Depression.  
Obviously I missed the earlier post which was referenced below your post titled Chanca piedra: kidney stone tree.  I primarily was referencing an article from UF which focuses mostly on getting rid of it or rather the inability to do so.  https://gardeningsolutions.ifas.ufl.edu/care/weeds-and-invasive-plants/chamberbitter/
They mention two varieties including a taller one, Phyllanthus tenellus
The use for kidney stone treatment in the Chanca piedra post was interesting.  I think I would have to do more research before adopting it as a tea.
though.    
1 week ago
Odds are that my post is of no help to you because it is 4 years late and I have no permaculture solutions.  However, in my defense I just learned of it as it was the principal weed growing through the weedcloth that a former tenant had placed over the yard trying to grow a lawn.  On removing it and the weedcloth, I noticed that its roots aggregated my compact clay soil better than any of the other weeds so I thought it might be valuable as a mulch plant, maybe even nitrogen fixing.
Alas, it is an insidious invasive plant mimicking Powerpuff (Mimosa strigillosa) which has the same type mimosa leaf and is a native nitrogen fixer and supposedly is a decent groundcover for my intended garden pathways.  I bought one plant to see what happens.  

The name of the weed is Chamberbitter, it is toxic although used medicinally in folk medicine.  That apparently is its only somewhat redeeming virtue.  It reproduces via seeds growing along the leaf stems so, if it has leaves, it reproduces; which shoots my plan to let it grow in my living pathways and mow it to use as mulch.  It also has other names which reference its ability to throw its seeds all over which I suspect includes my planting beds.  I don't know how far the seeds are thrown but I have a feeling I better start clearing the rest of the yard to try and control it.  Apparently even chemical control is problematic according to UF with a yearlong thick mulch as the only option other than hand pulling.  Maybe cardboard will be needed as my mulch is probably contaminated with it now.  
Since I will have to be in the garden anyway to handpull the nutgrass for the foreseeable future, I reckon I will try the handpull method for it at the same time.   Hope I can tell the difference between it and the powderpuff.  
BTW, I should have asked what luck you have had with it.  Permie folk often have solutions the Ag folk don't.  
1 week ago
Is the 13th attempt the charm?
My comment in March above as to what I was going to plant in 2025 almost materialized but life happened.  I am now on my 13th attempt at a functioning garden in the past 70+ years.  Hopefully it will be a successful application of what I have learned in the previous dozen attempts.  
I had started laying out the garden plot when I had to stop to move furniture and the blocks from a raised bed garden at a previous house to the new garden.  I had finally gotten the new garden laid out two days before receiving word I had to move (two weeks after my optimistic comment).  So I found a new place and moved the concrete blocks there.  I finally got all my household stuff moved and got started on converting a weed patch in the front yard to bare soil.  A previous owner had tried to make a lawn by laying sod over weed cloth.  The sod promptly died as the roots couldn't get enough water but the weed roots went right on through and other weeds came up through the bottom.  It was a real pain to remove and I still haven't finished but that is on the back burner now.  
So far the garden has been laid out and a cover crop planted - iron & clay cowpeas & buckwheat.  Both the use of a cover crop and those two plants are new.  I had never even seen buckwheat before and did not know it would grow in Fla.  
I know that concrete blocks are frowned upon by permies but I have learned from previous attempts that I need some structure that will take care of itself in the intervals of chaos that seem to happen when I attempt a garden.  The blocks not only slow the rhizome roots of weeds like nutgrass & betony but also provide a place to plant things like mint that want to compete with the nutgrass for dominion over my wimpy domesticated plants.  
So far the blocks outline the beds/paths and about half are actually leveled.  I decided to prep the beds before finishing the leveling so as to make some visible green progress so the neighbors don't complain too much, hopefully.  The backyard is a small slope backing up to a drainage ditch that I hope doesn't overflow in a hurricane so I have to use the larger front yard.  I calculate that I have a plot of about 690 sq ft of which 368 is in planting beds and 91 sq ft in the holes in the 182 concrete blocks and 180 sq ft in living pathways with about 50 sq ft in concrete.  I plan on a pollinator garden on the North edge of the vegetable garden.  
I noticed after laying out the intended garden at the previous house in March in a keyhole fashion that the grass was growing so well it could be a chop&drop source except that I had laid the paths out too narrow for my lawn mower.  So the current garden has 2 foot wide pathways to accommodate both my lawn mower and two wheel garden cart.  I noticed when clearing the plot that some weed roots were particularly adept at aggregating the soil which is a mix of gravel ( previous driveway ) and compacted clay.  So I looked for info on the internet about whether anyone used grass or weeds in their garden paths (I had used mostly pavers before).  I found a site about No Till Market Gardening hosted by Farmer Jesse and one of his YouTube videos had three guests who had all been using "Living Pathways" for 30 years.  No one really said what to use in N.Fla. so I have ordered four things to try and will let them compete with any weeds that show up.  I plan on mowing before any of them can go to seed the first year.  
The garden backs up to a bamboo "hedge" on the East side that overshadows the easternmost bed in which I had planned on growing greens to avoid some of the summer heat.  I found out that the soil was a thick mat of bamboo roots that obviously were going to act like a perennial grass to suck everything dry.  That bed is on the back burner also as I am going to create a wicking bed to provide enough water and root space to determine if greens will actually grow in the shade of the bamboo.  
Having missed the Summer Heat experiment I was going to try, I now plan to plant some Fall/Winter crops although the majority of the seeds I bought prior to the move are in a box hiding in the midst of chaos in my garage so they may turn out to be Spring crops if I don't find the box soon.  
I have installed the Tposts to construct six cattle panel arches for vining plants but have to level the blocks before actually installing them.  I found another dimension to watch out for when constructing this portion of infrastructure.  I had used a garden fork to loosen the soil and then a garden rake and a combo scuffle/stirrup hoe to clear the weeds from the plot and level the beds.  The Tposts were to be 8 inches from the concrete blocks while the hoe is 7 inches wide.  Since the blocks are 16"x8",  most dimensions defaulted to be in 8 inch intervals.  Some of the posts ended up being too close to the blocks to use the scuffle hoe easily between the posts & blocks.    
The plan was to be no-till which is why I bought the scuffle hoe.  I had used the old variety 70 years ago to clear weeds from the shallow roots of orange trees at 2 1/2 cents per tree so figured I would leave the trillions of soil critters alone if I bought the new edition.  It actually worked great except I did have to use a grub ax to pry up the weed cloth.  I also had to use a railroad pinch bar to remove several pine tree roots from between the posts where I was going to plant the vining crops.  After all, what will it profit a man to plant sweet taters if he can't grub 'em?  There also were two places where the roots were too close to the surface to level some of blocks and by the time I got them out the holes were below even plow depth.  
I will add some photos for general principles as soon as I can find/figure out the procedures but no timetable for that knowing the way I do things involving computers.  
2 weeks ago
It is my understanding that part of the problem with using a recipe from a hundred plus years ago is that modern processing produces a uniform grind size while those of yesteryear produced a range and did not sieve it which made it more expensive.  Consequently the wheat flour is added to corn meal and to oat meal to add a different particle size so they will hold together as they bake.  I have never tried it but you might add finely ground oatmeal to the larger size and see if it turns out like it does when wheat flour is added.  I think that is one reason stone ground cornmeal makes a more stable "corn only" cornbread.  One day I'll get ambitious and try it but I've been saying that for at least 10 years now so the odds are against it.  
3 weeks ago
No experience with refinishing but my wooden cutting boards and wooden knife handles are in very sad shape.  For several weeks now, I have been thinking of trying to help them both for both hygienic and esthetic reasons so I have done a slight amount of research.  This is one of the more reasonable sites I visited https://www.lumberjocks.com/threads/cure-time-for-a-pure-tung-oil-touch-up.355787/  
What I know from previous research on paints is that tung oil is heated to almost the fully polymerized stage so that when you apply it, the oil will react with oxygen and fully polymerize, ie, harden, cure.  A finish is intended to soak into the wood grain and a paint is intended to remain on the surface.  Both are expected to cure so they don't transfer to your hands when touched.  
Therefore, it would seem reasonable that any applications to cutting boards and/or knife handles would try to enhance the finishing technic.  Both time with oxygen and heating in the sun would be appropriate as suggested by one of the folk on the woodworking thread.  
I don't know about the toxicity aspect but one of the major domestic tung oil producing sources was a small town halfway between Tallahassee and Perry FL.  The trees were beside Hwy 27 and tourists would occasionally ignore the signs and try to eat the nut/fruit with uncomfortable consequences.  
The thread above emphasizes that you should read the label to ensure the oil does not have any "dryers" (chemical additives that may include heavy metals) for impatient painters.  
I watched a video for treating knife handles that compared mineral oil, tung oil, and a couple of "wood treatment" products.  The tung oil was a clear winner.  Have not seen any videos comparing cutting board treatments yet.  
Might try "curing" a tung oil treated knives and a cutting board in a solar oven.  I never get around to using it for anything else.  
1 month ago
Paul,
My suggestion would be to put an attention grabber at the start of the piece.  I'm not good at such things but something like  
"You are an apartment dweller - Why do you care?
You don't have a yard much less a willow tree and even if you did, the landlord won't let you change the paint in the bathroom, much less the toilet  !!!"
"But, you are interested in your health and the health of your family, friends, and neighbors.  There are things you can do !!! "

You've said the message really well but you forgot the introduction.  
Don't see any typos and my comment is outdated due to environmental restrictions, but I thought it was interesting.  Years ago, in Central Fla with 20 ft of pure sand before limestone bedrock, we got a new washing machine.  My father and I had just dug up and cleaned the drainfield for our septic tank for the second time when we got a new clothes washer.  Thinking that the detergent was a contributing cause to the failure of the septic tank, he scrounged some discarded irrigation pipe from an orange grove and routed the wash water past a grapefruit tree to a "mulch pit."  The tree after a couple years was producing over a thousand grapefruit.  It died the year after the plumbing was all connected to a sewer line.  Then they banned phosphate in detergents so it probably would have died anyway.  
Since the chemistry of the detergents has changed so much in the past 70 some years, this anecdote does nothing to refute your position but I sure did like those grapefruit.  
In 1986, my PC had 20 Megabytes of memory.  The word processing programs did not use serifs on the fonts because it required more bytes.  Similarly, single spacing was used to start a new sentence to save bytes.  Now my laptop has a Terabyte of memory and the use of serifs as in the ToC are not a problem nor is facilitating the signal of the start of a new sentence.  As my eyesight deteriorates with age, I sincerely appreciate the serifs and double spaces.  I even have to get out a magnifying glass to read some comic strips in the news paper because they use the skeletonized font.  
Not to mention that using a font that does not distinguish between a lower case "L", a capital "i" and a number "one" is foolishness in my book but then I am becoming more of a curmudgeon every day.  
And yes I know that this message is written in the skeleton font but I also tolerate some foolishness to express my opinion.
Otherwise I think all of the other comments I would have made already have been made by others.    
 
To Dale Poole,
A lady I knew used to transplant her tomatoes with a post hole digger.  She didn't harden them off but would plant them at the bottom of the hole leaving the stem exposed but the top leaves below the soil level.  The walls of the hole gave the stems more consistent temperature and if a cold snap happened she put a newspaper over the hole.  The dirt washed into the hole over time to fill it and the stems grew extra roots when it did and the extra roots came in handy when the drier weather came.  At least that was how she explained it to me.  I'm usually so late that all that doesn't matter.  
6 months ago