Rhiannon Drake

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Summary

part 2 of a 2 part podcast

Continuing the discussion about challenges of building communities.

The subject of government interference arises.  Julia has issues with trying to form a community, as the local government is paranoid about cults.

Paul feels there are people whose lives are empty and if they came to boot camp they might re-invent themselves.  Some people have indeed done this, but there must be more.  He also believes some people have arrived at boot camp as a refuge form the nastiness in the world.  People who bring nastiness to boot camp get sent down the road.  Kay feels that one good thing about Paul's place is that it feels safe.

Judgment is discussed.  People tend to say "don't judge me" or "don't be judgmental" but you have to have judgment in order to run a community, because the community has standards and those have to be maintained.  It comes back to obey-or-else again.  Paul refuses to compromise on his standards and as a result people call him an asshole.

Kay brings up the point that when people start at boot camp there's a rule which resists changing things based on what a newcomer suggests or says.  Paul says this started when Des was high commander; he told people "please go with the flow for the first two weeks".  This prevents people arriving and immediately claiming that everything is being done wrong and demanding that it be changed.  Willow feeders are a great example of something people think is wrong.  There are now 6 guidelines for new boots.

Ash starts a new point.  A thing in the to-dos in Thorns are nobility filters.  Ash is interested to know what filters might be useful.  Paul says that you don't find out who is truly noble until the shit hits the fan, at which point 5% step up.  Paul wants a system to work with the top 60% of people and get them to be more delightful more of the time.  Often self-selection is the best filter: make it easier to get out than to get in.

Paul has an idea for if the boot camp gets full:  There could be base-camp boots and lab boots; new boots would join base-camp, and lab would take in boots from base-camp rather than directly.

Paul raises the point that in the words of Ernie Wisner: "The captain dines alone".  Paul would love to join in at every meal but it doesn't work; having the ultimate boss at the table restricts people.  He does join in on taco tuesday however.  

Relevant Threads

permaculture thorns, A Book About Trying to Build Permaculture Community - draft eBook

community design philosophies for imperfect humans - permaculture thorns

Intentional community forum

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard


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Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 1 of a 2 part podcast

The topic is challenges of building a community.

Paul thinks only about 1% in the US want to live in an intentional community.  

They talk about Paul's book Permaculture Thorns which is a common thing people want to talk about.  It's basically an attempt at a recipe to get good people together in a community.

Also in the podcast is Ash Jackson who set out to do much of what Paul does, then found that Paul had already done it.  He mentions that he's glad not to have experienced some of the negative aspects.

Paul says that Thorns, and everything he's written since, doesn't actually have the answer to building communities, but he feels that he's closer to solving it than he was when he wrote Thorns.

Paul says the average price of a homestead in Montana is now over 1½ million dollars; so it's extremely hard for anyone to get started in homesteading, as they have to service a million dollar mortgage.  It's not possible to do that with income from a homestead.  Paul asks Samantha about it; she says she doesn't even try to make money from the land, the value is in the quality of food and life she has.

When it comes to his community, sometimes there are still problems which means the recipe still needs work.  He talks about the permies.com online community which although it's online, has many of the same issues, and may provide insight into how to make a successful physical community.

Ash asks if Paul feels that many people are so broken they can't fit into any community.  Paul feels that programmed or conditioned are better terms than broken, and the community builders need to find a way to overcome that.

Paul says that having rules gives bad guys traction.  This is why the only rule on permies.com is "be nice".  Kay says when you have rules people become lawyers to work the rules in their favor and the worst people are often best at that.

Relevant Threads

permaculture thorns, A Book About Trying to Build Permaculture Community - draft eBook

community design philosophies for imperfect humans - permaculture thorns

Intentional community forum

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard


Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 3 of a 3 part podcast.

Paul et al continue about ideas to change the world.  Or not.

Continuing the discussion about community living.  Paul feels community living could be important but getting the community right is the trick.  

Paul is asked about nice vs kind.  When you sign up on permies, there's just one rule: "be nice".  Being kind is different.  Being kind implies patience and understanding.

The point is raised about cooling your house, there are several suggestions.  Paul mentions that really big trees generate coolness on a hot day. The WOFATI is really good.  RMHs also can help with cooling, and indeed any mass.  Paul mentions that they are growing a lot of fruit trees around the house which makes a difference.

Paul brings up the subject of 350.org, which advocates for restricting atmospheric CO2.  They have a big list of things people can do, many of which  have been mentioned already.  He mentions a guy in Colorado who is dedicated to fighting fracking.  Paul suggested that using gas to heat your home wasn't that best.  He also mentions the amount of wood stoves that are sold.

The problem with people is that you have to feed stuff in small doses.  The playing cards were designed for that but they came out more expensive than he had hoped.

Relevant Threads

350.org website

Infographic to consider the best heat - all costs
Rocket Mass Heaters forum

Permaculture Playing Cards

WOFATI Eco Building

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard


Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 2 of a 3 part podcast

Continuing "being angry at good guys", or "things to do which improve the world"

The crew discuss food value of freshly picked fruit and vegetables, vs store-bought.  Store-bought veg is bred for shelf life, even organic vegetables, and the food value inevitably suffers as a result.

Next: "don't fly on a plane."  Especially, private jets.  But just "don't fly" isn't the only answer; it depends on circumstances.  For some purposes, driving is worse than flying for example.

At the top of Paul's list is "grow your own food", next is "rocket mass heaters".  People tend to talk big about heat pumps, but heat pumps are only good compared with direct heating in various forms.  

The mass in the RMH also helps with cooling in summer.

The next topic is "community living". The benefits of community living, in the right community, are great.  Of course you need the right community; but in a good community you can cut your living costs and your global impact footprint.  The point is made that neighborhoods used to be a thing even in urban areas, but now that's largely disappearing.  Paul relates his experience at Mt Spokane where the neighbors were a mixed bag, and eventually he ended up moving away.

Relevant Threads

Podcast 549 - Getting Permaculture Apples into Safeway - Part 1, Part 2

Infographic to consider the best heat - all costs

Urban Community forum

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard


Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 1 of a 3 part podcast

Paul has something to say about what's the best thing you can do for the environment.  Several people join in to talk about it.

He's a bit fed up with being the light bulb guy.  It's not the only thing you can do but a lot of people seem to think it is.  The whole light bulb debate especially for CFLs was dubious as people pushed them to profit from selling them.

The argument about incandescent bulbs doesn't generally take heat into account: in winter you can use the heat as well as the light, and run your heating a few degrees lower.

The next suggestion is about native plants.  It's not so much pro-native plants as anti-non-native plants, and of course to kill off the non-native plants you buy a ton of herbicide.  So while native plants are obviously good, spreading toxic gick around to allow that to happen isn't good.  Most of the "native plant advocates" don't actually eat native plants.  Most of what people eat is actually originally non-native.

Paul advocates growing food, rather than fixating on native or non-native.  Derek points out that corn was grown throughout the Americas, but now it's not a staple food like it used to be.  Paul points out that corn needs human input to survive long term.

The next topic is cows.  It's widely quoted that domesticated cattle cause a lot of environmental damage, but the numbers don't really add up.  Keeping cows in a paddock shift system has impressive benefits for soil and growies.  This argument is popular with vegans, but then they advocate that being vegan is the only solution, and moreover that everyone should become vegan.

Relevant Threads

It is 2026 and incandescent is still better than LED

Paddock shift innovation
Rotational grazing forum

Cattle forum

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard


Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 2 of a 2 part podcast

Paul and Stephen continue to talk cats.

Paul mentions the cathouses.  They started doing these so cats could have somewhere safe to have kittens or shelter.  The cathouses in the Library and the Solarium are part of the building but shut off from the inside of the building so they are warm in winter.  There's a glass panel which allows cat-viewing when you're in the room.

There's a new kind which are at the lab.  Stephen describes it - a 2ft x 3ft structure with doors on opposite ends.  There's a kind of wall inside the entrance separating the entrance from the main living space.  The roof is removable for cleaning.  The cats like the design and 2 females even shared the space with their kittens.

Paul says people sometimes have issues with how he cares for cats.  The cats aren't allowed in buildings except for the cathouses.  

Stephen comments that there aren't many snakes there, he conjectures that the cats eat the same stuff snakes eat so that the snakes aren't there.  Cats will also attack snakes.

Paul says that Bill Mollison is very anti-cat but it might be that where he lives there are too many cats.  Paul however feels good about his current cat situation.  City people tend to think it's wrong.  Paul is concerned that some people are so hostile about it.  Stephen feels that this is just another aspect of the kind of people who think their way is right and everyone else is wrong.

Relevant Threads

Dogs and Cats forum

Cat House Day - Half-assed Holiday
luxurious wood heat for feline overlords - please tap on glass

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard


Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 1 of a 2 part podcast

Stephen and Paul talk about cats.

They talk of a big tom "Chonks" which the neighbors call "Bearcat".

The cats are feral.  Stephen explains that they feed them enough to keep them sticking around, which they want as when they built the first hügelkulturs, they were over-run with chipmunks.

Jocelyn managed to charm the first cat, and once that cat stayed around that made the chipmunks disappear overnight.

Stephen makes the point that the cats don't eat all the birds, contrary to what people tend to think.

Currently the 3 "resident" cats are Felix, Sparky and Stephen's favorite War Duke.  

They talk about previous cats and mis-named females which someone thought were male.

Stephen recounts his favorite cat "Donkey", when she was still quite young there was a sudden rainstorm which Stephen rescued her from.  He used to feed the cats every morning, and he would have 3 dishes of food, as at that time there were quite a lot of cats.

Stephen mentions the fact that cats tend to die unexpectedly, especially feral ones.

Cats are also very territorial in a feral situation.  There will be an alpha male and he will fight any other males that show up.  There's also a boss female at the labs who gets first shot at the food.  

Paul feels the cats that live there now are well equipped to live there.  He won't allow any to be treated by vets and return unless they are neutered.  He wants cats that survive with minimal care.

Relevant Threads

Dogs and Cats forum

Donkey the cat pic here
Some more bootcamp cats

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard
The RSS feed linked in the richsoil/wordpress site seems to go as far back as pod 446?
https://richsoil.com/permaculture/feed/podcast
Can't see anything on my end.  I just get a raw text dump from the link and the site doen't offer anything other than making a proxy.  any idea who set it up?


Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 2 of a 2 part podcast

The subject of "building a better world in your backyard instead of blaming bad guys".  Some people seem to think that by voting in the right politician the world's problems will be solved.  Paul is not convinced. He'd rather pick up a shovel and do stuff to make the world a better place.

Paul relates how, many years ago, he worked as a librarian for the north west power planning council.  His job was to file all the documentation, form which he learned a lot.  The joke around the office was "conservation" - they spent a lot of time and effort trying to get people to use less power.  Conservation and using less power is the answer but getting people to do it is another matter.

They move on to communities.  Paul asserts that 95% of intentional communities fail, so he thinks we need a new model for communities.  He feels what sabotages communities is drama, and thus he's keen to reduce drama.  Beside no tobacco or drugs, there aren't many hard rules at Wheaton labs.  The decision process is "independent thought consensus dictator hybrid".  Sometimes consensus takes too long, so they have a dictator, i.e. Paul.  Paul was recently described as a "tinpot dictator" and after he looked it up he quite liked it.

Paul relates the story of the property owner who sold the same property 3 times.  Banks mostly won't touch homesteads, so you have owner-finance.  People try to make a go of homesteading while still doing their worky job and this almost always fails, and they lose their money.  What Paul offers is the ability to try it without the financial risk.  He describes the process of being in the boot camp.  Paul's idea is to come up with a reliable recipe for communities, and put that in a book so it can spread all over the world.

Next they talk about SKIP.  SKIP was created to train people and verify them to inherit land from homesteaders who have nobody to will their land to.  Paul feels about 85% of the people doing SKIP aren't actually bothered about inheriting land.  

Paul and other engineers feel that at this time, going to college to get qualified for a job is a sucker bet.  There are fewer jobs, and there are qualified and experienced people competing for jobs.  The possibility is also approaching that robots will be taking over trade jobs in the future.  College now only makes sense if you can get a free ride.

Now Paul is asked what he hopes will be his legacy in 100 years from now.  He's not really looking for legacy.  He'd like that his ideas such as WOFATI and the backyard food pump would be proven and widely adopted, and gardening gardeners would be everywhere, and hunger will be reduced.

Relevant Threads

SuburbanBiology's Youtube page

Paul Wheaton: Low input heaters, High output Gardens, Zero Sugar coating.
World's most efficient stove!!! Made of DIRT!!!

All about SKIP, PEP, Badges, BBs and More!

Community forum

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard