Dakota Miller

Dakota Miller wrote:TOO LONG DIDN'T READ: here's the basic setup. I'm certain I'm missing something. I expect to be corrected. Could you please explain why if you correct? I like to continue learning the why and how of what I'm doing. 😁

Raw rain water in Settle tank
--->Output for animal water.

10 micron washable
5 micron washable
---> Output for non-potable basic cleaning. Shower, mopping, etc  (Everywhere but in the mouth or in the food)

1 micron washable
.5 - .1 micron
Aquatru undersink RO https://aquatruwater.com/product/under-sink-water-purifier
UV LAMP VIQUA VH150 UV System https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/viqua-vh150-whole-home-uv-water-disinfection-system
clean potable water output
---> To small distiller for CPAP use.

Water finishers if I wish
Small water storage for in cabin use, sink, etc. (~5 gallons).


LONG STORY

I'll put the big filter set up ahead of the ro system to get the water as clean as possible for RO system. It feels to me more logical to invest in washable filters so I can reduce the wear and tear on the RO system as much as possible by back washing or swapping rinsed filters periodically. Makes it easier to keep the sensitive RO membrane in good condition.

I have decided on the Aquatru undersink RO for this setup.


I'm using the UV lamp to catch any escaping bacteria from the RO filter. The RO filter should do it's job just fine. The UV filter is a extra precaution. A thorough UV should be rated NSF/ANSI 55 Class A. But since I have so much filtering already done I figure a Class B at 30mj/cm2 won't be a problem. AND. If I can figure out how to run the water through the UV system aat 3.5 gpm it will effectively act as a Class A  at 40mj/cm2.

I do have a solar set up. But my first goal is potable water. I'll figure out how to power it and make adjustments after I solve the water problem.

I couldn't find anything specifically about water treatment. So I hope rain catches is the correct forum area.

I'm scrapping this idea all together. To many people saying it won't work. If someone else wants to take the idea and run with it, is be interested to see where it goes. Bye. 👋

Steve Zoma wrote:
That is NOT correct.

I live on an island far out to sea where my well's are compromised by sea water and can be affected by red tides. None of that can be visually seen in the water.

I have looked into RO for seawater because of the sea water in my house-system, but what RO system I use for desalination is very different. If the water is over 2000 mg/liter it is considered sea water and takes a special robust filtration system, and if under that it takes another. As desalination is being carried out, it constantly has to be adjusted, and that is just for desalination. Too much pressure and it strips the water of minerals, not enough and you get salty water. This is a VERY real issue for me and I have conducted a lot of research on how I can get good water here. The quote I got from professionals has been the most expensive system they ever saw: $45,000 with (3) whole house RO systems to get out all the problems I have to go from undrinkable to drinkable.

If I just had sea water issues, I would distill, but sadly I also have incredibly high iron so distilling would actually make my water worse.

You do not have it quite that bad, but you can use the information that I have learned to set yourself up to be better off. Water is life and it pays to do things right.

My neighbors do not treat their well water because it is too expensive to filter so they instead have rain catchment systems. But they test their water. I am on the east coast so may be different than you, but the rate of cancer here is the highest in the nation per capita. I myself have cancer, and it is because of the topography and jet stream. In short, bad shit comes here when it rains.

Yes, water testing will change with every rainfall, but you get an average of what is in the water.

No one person on this forum is smarter than all of us put together, but you are indeed right. You do not have to justify your water filtration system to anyone. I am not affected by what you do with your water system, but when I hear of blanket statements like "you would see bad water", for the sake of others who might read this thread, I feel obligated to say in a kind manner, "I'm not sure that is the case". Myself and others can explain this in many different ways, but we cannot make you understand it. However, we can only hope that others who read this thread do and keep themselves safe.

Drinking water is the key of life. Best to do things right, not guess.

Of course you can't see the water in your well. I was speaking of the conversation the seafarers were having. I didn't say those things at all. And I'm sure they would use a different system if they were in your situation, than if they were out on their boat.

I'm going to test my rain water once in the beginning. Then the output purified water regularly. If that's not good enough I don't know what to say. Don't drink the water in my house.

John C Daley wrote:

Does storage time get ride of the detritus somehow?

Detritus is the lumps, poo, leaves, nuts twigs etc, they are best removed with first flush diverters and or course filters such as leaf traps.
Water sitting in a sheltered tank with access to oxygen will clean itself.
Fine particles called fines, will simply settle to the bottom.
Most other issues just improve with time and oxygenisation.

Nice 👍

I'm able to build a 1600gal tank. With fence and plastic. I can send the link to what I found. I'm hearing that may be to small a tank Will 1600 work?

EDIT: seems I can get it up to 3500gal tank.

John C Daley wrote:

How does that sailor get water from the ocean, because he can't always take enough water with them, or the stored water becomes sickly.  

from google
Sailors in the 1700s primarily obtained water by filling large wooden casks at ports, supplementing this with collected rain, and rationing it strictly.

Distillation may be the only way that will work for you.

Yeah I'm considering destillers. At least the limitations are pretty inarguable. I know exactly what will evaporated and what I need to physically filter.

1700s sailors were built different. Lol. Most modern boats have a BEEFY RO system. (That's why I chose RO instead of destilling) Plus any other add-on filter they like. I'm looking very critically at the katadyn survivor 40E. It's over built and over priced for ground water. But it's built to be used as a complete system. The company expects that their customers will drink the water straight out of the system. They can't afford to cut corners and play with false claims because they'd end up with very sick, lawsuit-happy, customers. But apparently it a go-to in the long distance ocean traveling group when storage is only a temporary solution. You can repair most the parts yourself with common tools and such. They generally use an RO system to purify sea water. Dump it in a holding tank and test it on boat. If it tests good they put it in the main tank to drink. The only thing they have to be concerned about is oil and red tide. And those can be seen visually in the water.

John C Daley wrote:Timothy, I am responsible for my drinking water supply and have been for over 50 years.
I also work in the field as a Civil Engineer.

I have never tested my water.
I allow air to circulate in the tanks.

I do not provide any form of chemical treatment, just time in a big tank!

Do you mean you never test raw water, the potable water after treatment, or never ever at all?

How do you circulate air in the tanks? And why do you do this?

How does time in a big tank affect the water? I assume it purifies it?

John C Daley wrote:
I dont believe anybody is asking you to justify your quest.
In australia, water off metal rooves are generally not tested because of common prior knowledge.
Bird, rat and possum detritus is dealt with by the first flush and storage time in a big storage tank.

Well I working on a set up that uses candle style housing instead of the entire RO system. Anyway. If I can figure that out I'll just start blind, and problem solved until I get it right. I've learned a lot about water production in the last week.

Does storage time get ride of the detritus somehow?

"if it dries, it dies." It's accurate IF the surface drying allows it. Some surfaces, especially nonporous ones, can continue to harbor microganisms.

I go ahead and rise with pure water. Because it won't hurt me to do so.

I'm not afraid of raw water to a certain degree. If I'm willing to swim in it, them I'm willing to allow it anywhere but my food and drink.

I used to swim in my great grandma's pond my whole life until she died when I was 36. I guarantee I swallowed more then a little water. I found out it was constantly testing positive for microorganisms. So in theory I should have died from contaminated water. I don't know why I didn't. I don't know why nobody does.

And sunlight doesn't purify water. If it did all life on earth would die.

Hannah Shaw wrote:

Steve Zoma wrote:I am not seeing your water testing results.

A RO system that takes care of 12 mg/liter is great if you have 7 mg/liter, but if you have water that has 23 mg/liters you got contaminated water after you treat the water.

All the builder placard shows is the percentage that is removed at a certain level. I have no idea what your actual levels are: it may be higher, it may be lower?

You are putting the cart before the horse. You test your water to find out what you have for bad stuff in it. Then you obtain a water filtration system to take out what you don't want. You may not need any filtration system. You may need far more than you think. But if you overfilter then you end up drinking foul tasting water because the good minerals are not left in it and your own health suffers. Same thing for animals that you may have.

It is all just a guess unless you test and it costs just $150. There is zero reason not to test. It could save you tons of work and money, or even save your life.

You’re absolutely right — without actual water test results, everything else is just guessing.

A spec sheet showing “removes up to X% at Y mg/L” doesn’t tell you what’s really happening in someone’s home. If your source water is 7 mg/L, a system rated for 12 mg/L might be fine. If it’s 23 mg/L, that same system could leave you with levels you’re not comfortable with.

Testing first makes sense. It tells you:

What contaminants are actually present

At what concentration

Whether you even need treatment

And if so, what type and capacity

Overfiltering is a real issue too. Stripping out everything can impact taste and remove beneficial minerals, which affects both people and pets.

For ~$150, getting a proper water analysis seems like the smartest starting point. It removes assumptions and helps you choose a solution based on data — not marketing claims.

Test first. Then treat accordingly.

However. I'm still trying to understand how those seafarer survive without dying. They can go from port to port in countries with sketchy water. Depend on their watermaker for drinking water. And somehow they live life just fine. It's impractical of not impossible for them to test every new bay/dock water. Even deep open ocean has different levels of contaminants in different areas. This is where my brain stops braining. HTF are they getting along purifying Ocean water without the constant water checking? That I apparently MUST have in order to succeed in providing potable water. Go into a marine forum, their water source vetting is simple. Look over board. Is the water look nasty or red? No? Your good to go. Test you batch of clean water before putting it in the storage tank. If the clean water water test foul, dump the water, check the system, back wash, move on down the line and try a different spot. Rarely does the clean water actually come out bad.

Life straws.

For goodness sake. I'm already going to test the rain water. Why do I feel like I have to defend myself.

Hannah Shaw wrote:

Testing first makes sense. It tells you:

What contaminants are actually present

At what concentration

Whether you even need treatment

And if so, what type and capacity

Overfiltering is a real issue too. Stripping out everything can impact taste and remove beneficial minerals, which affects both people and pets.

For ~$150, getting a proper water analysis seems like the smartest starting point. It removes assumptions and helps you choose a solution based on data — not marketing claims.

Test first. Then treat accordingly.

Oh ok.  So any contaminant parts per liter. I'm on it. I'm going to go look and see.

John C Daley wrote:Dakota, Steve is making a very important point about testing the ground water.
- your 1800 Gallon tank sounds perfect for you at the moment.
- leaf traps are important
- Have a look here, this equipment is available in North America. https://rainharvesting.com.au/learn/
- A submersible pump will draw from the bottom, maybe an external small even 12V pump will work for yourself at the moment.
- Look at RV supplies they have very good expensive pumps.
- A small particle filter should be all you need.
- Rainwater will not have problems with these as Steve mentioned, "arsenic is hit or miss in drinking water sources, but so is radiation from uranium."
Can you load some pictures.

Yeah knowing what's in the water is good. I don't disagree with Steve. And I'll be testing my rain water run off before the system is finished install. But I need to have a system that's flexible enough to purify most anything. So asking what's in my rain water should be unnecessary with the system I'm trying to build. There are toxins that can't be purified by any known system. So I'm not looking for perfection, I'm looking for reasonable expectation.

Thank you. Yeah I don't have anything built yet. I really don't have pictures. I hadn't considered RV supplies. Good idea. So I think I can mount everything on the wall and put everything on standard PVC pipe. I despise PEX, thank you. But someone mentioned elsewhere that every device needs to have the proper water pressure to function? I'm still trying to figure out how to address that. I've had pressure regulator before in my old RV I used to live in. But they kept failing. So I'm not sure how to approach this.

Should I collect raw water for testing from the tank input drain? Or the settle tank itself?