Gay, the old frontier. We never left the country

Are there any gay men and women out here in Permie land? I am and proud of my life. I grew up on the farm and I know a lot of other men and women did too and are still on the land. So, how do ya'll think on this?

We all don't live in San Francisco and say "HEY GURL!" Screaming it down and up the street. I drive a Ford 250, got a gun, ax and dogs. How about you? How are you and your mate doing? Looking for mates? Given up? Are you back to care for old parents and the land again? What is everyone's thoughts.

Hey Daniel, of course we're here. We're everywhere!

My man and I are coming up on our 32nd anniversary, and this year I may even marry him. (although I've always shied away from most hetero-normative cultural artifacts). It just seems for legal reasons, its the easiest path to take.

By the way we both come from large RC families and are totally and joyfully accepted.

Thats great for you guys. I have ex's but no takers. When you say RC, can you expand on that? Where are you guys locating? Are you farming? A general whats up?

RC? Roman Catholic. But even in the most abusive (slapped around by nuns, humiliated by priests) it's never been close to any of the vial slime that oozes from the lips of rick santorum (can't bring myself to capitalize its name).

We were both raised in southern Ontario, he close to Detroit (saw the Lions game at Ford Field last Christmas eve--we won!!) but have been in Montreal for 30 years now. We have 50 acres of upland hardwood forest on the Canadian side of the Green Mountains border with Vermont. Planning to build our retirement hide-away there soon, but in the mean time spending most of the summer sleeping in a tent, living in the open, cooking on a fire, tending our food and flower gardens, getting dirty, swimming in our pond, breathing fresh air, running around naked, and scaring the neighbours away with our bizarre and primative behavior. I've got a 30hp Kubota deisel, with a bunch of attachments, which makes things easier because we always did things by hand before.

We are well educated, well positioned in society, and scare the crap out of these same people because we don't conform somehow, no matter how well we seem to fit in. Life's a hoot living on the fringes.

My wife and I are proud permies. We've been together for over three years. (Where does the time go?) We live in the city right now, but are working to fix up our homestead so we can move out there next year. Neither one of us fits the stereotypical image of the lesbian, either, though I come close when I cut off most of my hair in the summer and head to the shooting range!

We are everywhere!

My man and I have been together for 15 years this summer. We'll be marrying in August of '13, if all goes well. While I didn't grow up 'on the land' (rather, 'in the mountains'), Mike did. He spent much of his childhood on a small family farm in the midwest. We moved out of the city (Olympia, WA) a little over 6 years ago, and are trying to sustainably build a soul enriching flower and woodland garden to house our massive iris collection in a nutrient-poor twice-harvested clear-cut grown over with mutant hybrid douglas firs. Our work is cut out for us.

While we're now in a rather red portion of the state, we don't generally encounter any problems from neighbors. Our families are supportive and loving. Our neighbors are the best, we're very fortunate. We are blessed to live in a very beautiful setting. Neither of us are what you might expect of a gay couple from watching TV - I'm generally filthy from the garden or hiking deep in the mountains, Mike is generally dressed for the garden. I drive a 30 year old Toyota pickup, and know my way around logging roads better than city sidewalks.

I wish we would've come to our land with some measure of permaculture in mind, rather than coming to it once we got here, but we're moving forward and doing good things for the land. It is one center around which our relationship revolves. We enjoy shaping the land with our hands, guiding the plant and animal communities toward bounty and resilience, bringing beauty out of a fractured and injured landscape. We both look forward to preparing our land, and our selves, for the coming decades of change, and to growing old with our land. Just this morning, we were remarking on how the maples in front of the house, while still small, were just this year starting to show good form. In just a couple of years, they'll provide such a wonderful shade from the summer sun.

Life just keeps getting better.

love this thread.

two of my least favorite words used together...."social conservatism."

skookum starrhill wrote:

While we're now in a rather red portion of the state, we don't generally encounter any problems from neighbors. .

Lloyd George wrote:love this thread.

two of my least favorite words used together...."social conservatism."

When people are just allowed to be people first we always find a way of getting along. It's only those who think they can manipulate things to their own advantage who will use many such related issues to set neighbour against neighbour.

When conservatives don't know the meaning of the word conserve, liberals forget how to liberate, and socialists act more like socialites, it makes me believe that it's all a scam to divide and rule while they loot the planet.

I don't think you'll find a more varied group of people than we have here at Permies.com and look how well we get along, how helpful we are to each other. It reminds me of the liberation movements of the 1970's where I cut my teeth before they were all co-opted for political gain too.

pretty much...have seen much of the world for the last 20 years...and, the more I learn about it, the more I like my three acres!

Mike here from SW Texas..and thanks for posting the topic. Back in the early 80s, still the days of "snail mail" I had sent out some correspondences to various Permaculture communities with an interest in starting an all "Queer" /GLBT Permaculture community. I actually got responses from about 6 Lesbians in the USA and a couple of men in AUS and NZ. I heard some of those women eventually moved to Tennessee and started their own community... But I revisit the idea from time to time. So I put it out there. I would like to network with more GLBT people who are Pc'r. I find many are interested in responsible Earthcare and have deeply passionate motivations to create satisfying community. And yes Texas can also be very very Queer.....Mike

I'm straight, not narrow, and have actually started identifying as queer, by Dan Savage definition.

I've got friends in the woods who qualify for a 'yes' to your questions. I've just introduced them to permaculture, but they've been on the cusp of it without knowing for a while now.

Also, I know of a 'momo-commune' in Oregon, where they love the land. I'm hoping to throw a perma book their way.


xxooxxoo

Well, I'll join in. While I'm a woman almost 72 and have been single for 10 years, the important thing for me is NOT my sexual preferences, but how I feel about the land.

Terri here....age 57 and single for the past six years. I am new to permaculture and am quite overwhelmed with all I am learning.

Hi, Tom here 51y/o. I live in Georgia, dont have a garden but am very interested in the permaculture lifestyle. Would be very interested in a community situation. I do keep honey bees. and love the land. Looking for like minded men in the South East USA.

gay as a goose here, though I'm not sure what that means. It's just the way I've always said it.

it never occurred to me that there were other guys who shared my interests. One of my principle difficulties with dating, really, is that any partners I've thrown in with generally get tired of being at the farm every day and grow resentful of it over time. They don't get it that this isn't a hobby, it's a life-orientation and a path that will never end. That was true even when I wasn't hooked on the idea of permaculture. The farm isn't some weekend getaway or vacation property; it's where I plan to spend the rest of my days if I'm able.

I'm 49 as of this past September 4. I'm not really a chickenhawk, but over time I've attracted a number of fossil-hunters, such that I now won't date anyone under 30 if I can help it. However, I have enough on my plate at the moment that dating anyone, regardless of age, is more than I care to contemplate for a while.

Have you seen the TV show " BEEKMAN BOYS"?
It was on Planet Green for 2 seasons and is now on the Cookng Channel.
Josh and Brent are gay guys who bought an old upstate NY farm and
have been developing a wonderful community where they live.
Love their show and blog. www.beekman1802.com
They were even on the Amazing Race TV show this year!
They are well accepted!

My partner and I live on a 1-acre urban farm in Birmingham, AL. We have fruit trees/bushes, chickens, rabbits, cats, and veggie/herb gardens. It's been a journey but we are slowly learning how to be more sustainable. We both have a deep love for the natural world and share a dream of being debt free and living off of the grid.

Unfortunately, we don't know any other permies...

Queer-femme lady here I live in the city(Columbus OH) currently with my man, but are currently looking for land to build a cob home for ourselves and my girlfriend
Nice to know that there are queer permies that live outside of Oregon and Cali!

Got to agree with the 70+ year old lady....I am
also in that age range and been single for over
15 years. I have no label I give myself and find
I grow more and more open minded as I grow older.
I don't care what anyone else labels themselves, or
their livestyle as long as they don't interfere with mine!
My sexuality is LAND/ Sustainability!

I love this thread ! heaps of gay guys n girls round here
hell peter Allen came from here Tenterfield
30 years ago it wasnt as kosher as it is now Narrow minded bigotry is very last century

I have a spare house if any of ewe are visiting OZ


Im pretty straight I love evryone

See, that is the spirit. Everyone welcome. All is well. If your ever up here I got spare room and a barn to bunk in. Bring the family too. I am open minded. My philosophy, we are all made of clay.

Not much to do now. Cold and snow. Playing with technology!

oooh man! Daniel that is TMI about your nostrils!!
signed,
another family member

Hi.
I like the thread. I am a gay man, living with my partner of almost 4 years. He is 30, I am 41. We live in the kootenay area of BC, in the south central part of the province. We live near the town of Nelson, which is the only small town of under 10,000 people to host a pride festival, (that I know of!) So, it is very open and accepting in this area.
We are in the process of buying into an intentional community. We will be a part of a 90 acre land co-op, which was started by a group of queer women as a women-only community. Over the years, that community has grown and evolved to be more open to all genders and sexualities.
We have a large community garden, and most houses on the land also have their own gardens as well. We are fully off-grid with a micro-hydro system that provides up to 8Kw of power to the 6 houses. I am building a 12x16' passive solar greenhouse that will include a rocket stove/mass heater and I plan to use the greenhouse to house a fairly extensive aquaponics system.
We have raised pigs last summer, and all their hard work digging, rooting and pooping will help a lot as we convert their paddock into more garden space as well.
We have a lot of work to do, and are always looking for woofers to come and help out, while being a part of this incredible community, and to experience the magic of the kootenays, and the land here.
We all love rural living, and being self sufficient.

I and hopefully my partner ae gay:) j/K BUT WE HAVE BEEN TOGETHER FOR 10+YRS NOW AND ALSO JUST PURCHACESD ON LAND CONTRACT A FAIRLY RURAL 4.7 ACREAS FOR OURSELVES. SORRY:yelling shhh. Ive always been into gardening at least if not farming and my studies have lead me deeper and I love all of it. We are looking at a smaller scale farm since he works and Im on dissability. downsized from my original plans I now realize my limitations and going full bore for that :) He is quickly picking up the benefits of living here vs town and he didnt believe me how much he would love it I said from the beginning. very glad for that.

Im also playing with the idea of a couple rustic cabins for room and board type thing to work as when we need it most. I already have a small native plant nursery started, very small but Im going from there. Thanks for the thread.

That is awesome! I hope you all and the land grow well and prosper. I love to hear about any person no matter "lifepath" they are on do well. The land up there is beautiful and rugged still. Then some beautiful farmland that was truly blessed from day one.

Beware of your land contract before you do major improvements. I had a land contract home and ac I was improving. I had to let it go when the econo collapsed and a crack/meth head decided to move into my camper. So also beware of letting people stay in your buildings more than a couple of weeks. Michigan has some strong laws concerning squatting. Just beware. The court will take the jerks side every time. I lost a lot on what I spent on the improvements. Someone else is enjoying.

How is the job situation up there? Are your crops changing with the weather patterns? How is the water supply? Let us know. Do tell and keep this post posted, so to say. Permies is a great site. Paul, I hope to met someday. AND his collection of devoted folks.

Ha Dan, didnt realize you were from MI. Yes it is very beautiful up here. The job situation is probably as bad or worse than others. Alot of people are just doing what they can. My farmgirl friend is really coming in to hers doing her small farm tour on the side and learnig about the business end.

Our place is placed very nicely on a hill in a valley. I never thought id have a view really. lol. Thanks about squatting lesson. I didnt think of that but I will now. I live very near a campground and a main atv tomahawk trails and a lake. I wanted to also rent them out as mushroom cabins, dear hunting or ice fishing. Whatever. Our house is surrounded on 3 sides by state land!!! It would certainly take a major disaster to get us to move from here now. There were no gardens here but quite a few nicer trees ect and areas for tucking in some plants.

The water situation is better but not good still. Its taken a good 3-4 yrs since the one drought to fill stuff up again. I guess it is technicaly still below normal and the bay is way out compared to usuall I here. I have noticed different odd flowering times so yes id say our seasons are affected by warming.

hey daniel,

new to this site but not new to permaculture. singe gay dude here, ex-monk, vegan and into building a sustainable future. trying to " be the change i want to see in the world". i have looked to many souls over the years for inspiration, masanoba fukuoka, helen and scott nearing, bill mollison, just to name a few. i've a big follower of derrick jensen "endgame" and believe in most of the premises of that book. i feel that this industrial culture is killing all life on this planet and the time to change is now.

after leaving the monastery, i built my own solar house/studio, with rainwater catchment system and dry toilet. i've been in the process of building a water resevior and solar pumping system for irrigation for a synergisting type of gardening of vegetables in the ozark bio-region of missouri. one definitely needs to be a friend of time and single minded.

i'm looking to connect with like minded folks gay or straight but i must say, however, that the "gay culture" as a whole is mostly into the "more stuff" mantra of this death culture.

namaste,
troy

p.s. by the way, you are one good looking dude!

Troy,

Thats great. I like a human who wants to be more without the bitchy mean streak that seams to be the norm today. I will admit I am prone to it when prodded.

Working on being a better person and at the same time the world I think is the highest personal thing a person can do for himself. Not to mention the world. Just some fragmented thoughts from me today.

How is your region and water doing? We desperately need rain here. As for culture I find myself bit of an alien in popular gay/straight culture. The worship of objects, is the golden calf, for any religion. It is amazing when I talk about civic ride and beautiful public buildings people look at me like I am a fool. Lol, maybe I am. Today, a tired fool. Lol.

Welcome to the dialogue here. Let me know how your garden is doing. I will not be doing much this year. I have very little energy. I grow amazing grass! BTW, great pic.

hey daniel,

i’m sorry you’re not feeling well. i did happen to notice on you postings of your health issues. i’m not “christian” but i am a spiritual man, and i pray that you begin to get your strength back and you are once again a strong man! not to be preachy but i would suggest eating a lot of organic raw vegetables and perhaps buy yourself a juicer and begin juicing vegetables, fruit and nuts and seeds. i’m a big believer that the body will begin to heal itself if we give it what it needs.
yeah the drought has been severe over the last few years with soaring temperatures. i know last summer was the summer from hell. i was working on a project in eureka springs, arkansas and there was no rain. i completed the project before july, got home and basically didn’t go outside until fall. i don’t have air conditioning but i did build a well insulated house, so i would open the house up at night and use a whole house fan to bring in the cooler night air and shut the house up during the day. even with temperatures over 110 it wasn’t too bad inside. this spring, however, the ozarks have received ample rainfall and the lakes and rivers are brimming over with water. it’s been a huge blessing and every time it rains i publicly give thanks to “ THE CREATOR OF ALL THAT IS” for the rain, on facebook. being thankful is such an important prayer, in my opinion.
my garden is small this year and that’s okay. my kale, beets,swiss chard, turnips, carrots, tomatoes and peppers are all doing well and once again, i’m thankful.
namaste, troy

Hi queers.

Seeing this thread made me extremely happy. I'm a backroads mountain girl by upbringing, but I definitely "came of age" into my queer identity in very large, cosmopolitan cities with strong LBGT communities (think ages 18-25) so having moved back to the mountains recently, there's been a bit of culture shock. Better still I moved back to the mountains with my mate in tow. She's a chic city girl through-and-through and has never lived outside of a major urban center in her entire life (she's recently 31), so it's especially been a big transition for her.

The big reason we moved back was because we felt strong pulls towards a sustainable lifestyle- we wanted to grow our own food, raise our own meat/eggs, preserve food, create permaculture installations and eventually, we want to build our own earth bag home. I have significant experience with gardening, since our spring/summer garden served as a major source of food for my family growing up, and I have some background in primitive skills since I did a fair amount of ethnoarchaeology back when I was an active field scientist, but the rest of it we're learning as we go.

We're adjusting by finding wonderful, like minded people. We've met some fellow queer folks here locally who are doing what we're doing (and a whole lot of wonderful straight folks as well) and we're always eager to meet more. We're located in Northern CA, in gold country - would love to meet more locals, semi-locals or long distance friends.

Thats great. I understand. My time in the mega cities is over. Population is still growing but we are rural for now. Often others do not understand the issues of being alternative in a rural community. I have to drive many counties over to find basic health care for example. Even my vet overcharged me and I had to change vets recently. Because of the homophobia. Its ok. he can laugh it up. He is losing his customers one by one.

I am not alone in the belief of fairness and equality. These old farmers I know work quietly and thoughtfully.

Permaculture agriculture is an amazing adventure. I was on an Amish farm just yesterday. Talking the talk. We were making a deal. With sustainability is proper animal husbandry. Ethics must also be added. I feel it is easy to be a smelly hippie and grow produce. Many have that covered. To love the land and give it back to her is what this is all about. With that said I would never buy produce or product from people who I feel are unclean. I was taught this by my grandparents. Just a thought as I get off subject.

NorCal is beautiful. Be careful and enjoy. Keep us posted.

Hi Daniel,

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I'm lucky enough to have landed back in a county that, while rural, is reasonably progressive or at the very least, reasonably accepting and "live and let live". Homophobia still does rear its ugly head, but it sounds like I have more opportunities to take my business, myself, etc. elsewhere when it happens. Perhaps it's because I grew up here, I feel like I know the social landscape and feel entitled (by way of birthright, if nothing else) to participate in it when other non-local LBGT people may feel the need to be cautious. It's hard for me to say.

I do feel incredibly blessed to be able to be back on the land and out in the fresh air and the green. My family lives a stone's throw away and I even have a handful of friends from high school who have also recently also moved back who are willing to meet up for beers on the semi-regular. It really is a much bigger leap for my lady (bless her for having the faith and dedication to follow me), but I feel she's adjusting well too. She landed a great job with an highly regarded, local environmental non-profit and it's serving as a basis for community for her, and we're gearing up to have our first harvest from the small permaculture installations we built this year (namely our herb spiral, our three sisters mounds, various food from our huglebeds in our fledging food forest, etc.). She's never grown food before, so I'm really excited to share that experience with her.

I agree with all you've said, though I apparently don't mind the dirty hippies quite as much as you do. I find a lot of them naive and often silly, but on the whole I find them a well meaning, gentle lot even if I find them often misguided.

We will be careful and enjoy! You too!

Gay? For your epic beard, yes!
Seriously, awesome beard, you provably give awesome icicle kisses in the winters!

I do have me some beard envy...

I am glad so many are going back to the land. Tonight at the hardware I talked to a gal who moved back. In Chicago we had things in common but never met. she said "it was time to leave the city and come home,.." She is sitting on a local committee to improve a local town. We talked about lifestyle and technology. Permaculture is on her mind as the people are coming back. The best way to use what land is still available permaculture works well.

My brother just moved back from the East coast and is talking sheep and hay. Lol, he just stole a few rolls of fence from me I had stored at the parents farm. Before they leave the East coast him and his partner will get married. I am happy for them. It is too late for me now. I am full of hope for the people. The fight for all our/all peoples rights must move forward. We are all in the crosshairs of what may be. No matter sexuality, race or creed.

On a high note friends. I was on tv and the newspaper this week. Kalamazoo Township, not to be confused with the city of Kalamazoo, has approved a non discrimination ordinance, including LGBT, rights for all citizens. Paving the way for the employees of the township to get benefits for partners same sex or not. I gave this speech, god I was full of butterflies. There is often retribution for speaking up. All I could think of was my parents and grandparents. They always told us to stand up for not only ourselves, but for those who are too scared or unable to stand up for themselves. I wondered as I talked would I find my windows broken at home. Will the dogs be gone. This is not uncommon to happen.

Still I pushed on.

It passed 6-0. Now, we will move to the next township in the county. The one I own my home. Here, my fellow farmers will judge me and my thoughts I hope fairly and with an open mind.

After it passed and the meeting was over I stood out in my brothers hay field. My twin owns the woods behind and my cousin is next door. I remember the marches in the 80's. I remember the grocer making comments to my mom about her fag son. Scholarships for college that were not sent in on time because "people like me do not deserve them" and so many things I endured and protested and pushed. Not just for myself. No, I despise a bully and understand the bigger picture. To help others and do the right thing. Because this is America. We the people in order to form a more perfect union,....

The full moon and the dogs ran around me. I am tired. Still this fight for our lives, all our lives, must continue forward. Looking up at the satellites watching us below. The playing field is getting bigger all the time.

Well, one step at a time.

I am still wondering who left tire tracks in the grass in front of my home.

BTW, I am not against smelly hippy's. Just want food to be safe as it can be and enjoy watching people wash their hands after doing certain activities. Live how you wish, just remember sanitation and food production is often as simple as soap and water.

Hi there. I'm batting for the other team but thought you guys and girls might get a chuckle out of this.