• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Anne Miller
  • jordan barton
  • Pearl Sutton
  • r ranson
  • Nicole Alderman
  • Greg Martin
  • Steve Thorn
  • paul wheaton
  • Leigh Tate
  • Mike Haasl
master gardeners:
  • John F Dean
  • Carla Burke
  • Stacie Kim
  • Jay Angler
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Listen Online

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes


Paul, Katie and Opalyn get back together to continue their review of Sepp Holzer’s Desert or Paradise.

Holzer’s permaculture for the creation of ideal landscapes:
“To be a farmer is the best profession, as long as the farmer communicates and cooperates with nature.  The farmstead of the future is a farmstead of diversity where plants, animals and humans thrive in harmony.  Living foods are produced there, not just foodstuff, because a monoculture in food production neither supports economy nor ecology.  The more diverse the food production, the larger and more diverse the yields and demand.  The farmer maximises financial gain by offering unique products.  This encourages a diverse agriculture which is good for nature and the wallet.  Financial success is important because people can not live on the love of nature alone.”  That last line is a good summary of Sepp’s philosophy, and everyone seems to like the concepts of living food and farmstead - that is a hybrid of for-profit farming and subsistence homesteading.

An offer to cooperate - trademark in the making
“We are working on our own brand of Holzer’s permaculture products at the moment.  We are looking for farmers and producers interested in supporting this.  The idea is to develop a standard for cultivation and marketing of organic, healthy food.”  Paul made up one such higher standard in his book and called it “Vorp” for no good reason.  Another good idea might be to use a numeric scale for varying degrees of goodness rather than the boolean scale of organic.  Back in podcast 8, Paul basically suggested an independent organization be created to rate organizations based on the health of their food.  For example: if McDonald’s was rated at 2.8 and Taco Bell 2.2, Taco Bell would be incentivised to improve the quality of its food to 2.9 so that it can advertise that it's healthier than McDonald’s.  The situation would then flip into McDonalds’ court and they’d aim for 3.0 to compete.  Repeat until both offer much healthier food.

Relevant Threads

Podcast 008 - Beyond Organic Innovation

Farm Income forum

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.

This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Eivind W. Bjørkavåg
Suleiman, Karrie, and Sasquatch
Kyle Neath
Bill Crim
Kerry JustTooLazy
Jocelyn Campbell
Chris Sugg
Bill Erickson
G Cooper
Dominic Crolius
Penny McLoughlin
Mehron Kugler
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Pasquale DeAngelis
Greg Martin
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Dana Martin
Candace Dahlk
Keith Kuhnsman
Eric Tolbert
Matthew Stone
Nuno Marta
Polly Jayne Smyth
Opalyn Brenger
ellen fisher
Eliot Mason
Katie Young
Ivar Vasara
Nathan Hale
Of course, I found a very beautiful couch. Definitely. And this tiny ad:
The Wheaton Eco Scale
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic