All the Great Things about Wood Chips

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:Wally, there are no simple answers to this. Where are you located? What is your rainfall? How long is your frost free season?

I only mention this because in my dry, cold climate it takes 3+ years for green chips to start to break down on their own. I have grown impatient, and am taking aggressive measures to incorporate them into various other malodourous mixes, with a long soak and then application into growing zones.

But if you can get by without this labourious process, you're fortunate!

(Edited for spelling.)

Mushroom slurries are your friend when it comes to breaking down cellulose quickly.

Redhawk

Hi Douglas,  I live in the high and dry country of the US southwest. Not much rain but some winters see heavy snow.  Last night we got a nice unexpected rain storm that dropped about half an inch. This morning I was again working on taking down my wood chip piles and spreading out the chips. What I saw convinced me that spreading them out is the way to go. The rain had only penetrated about a half inch down; the whole pile below that was bone dry. The chips I had spread out were nice and soggy. I also checked under the chips to see what the soil got, and it was wet underneath too. I'm spreading the chips not as thick as I did at first, because I want the ground to get water. So I think this way the chips will help hold the water in the soil better, rather than leave it open to evaporation. (I also covered the chips with a layer of partially composted pine needles. On other areas I laid down the pine needles first and covered with the chips. So I'm experimenting to see which way works best.) What do you think of all this?

Let me know how your experiments with chip layering go, I like your methodology, I just don't have any pine straw to duplicate your experiments with.

Thanks
Redhawk

Thanks Redhawk. Will do. I only now saw that I replied to your reply to Douglas and saw the message about mushroom slurry. A couple of years ago I bought some Mycogrow from Paul Stametz. Would that serve the same function as the slurry? I used to when I was planting my fruit trees, pouring it around their roots. Still have some left.

Wally Jasper wrote:Thanks Redhawk. Will do. I only now saw that I replied to your reply to Douglas and saw the message about mushroom slurry. A couple of years ago I bought some Mycogrow from Paul Stametz. Would that serve the same function as the slurry? I used to when I was planting my fruit trees, pouring it around their roots. Still have some left.

Mycogrow will be a fair addition, it's best used on growing trees, veggies and grass though. Mychorrhizae are fungi that help growing roots take up the nutrients they need to supply to the plant leaves.

Redhawk

Good to know that. Will save the mycogrow for more plantings. As for mushroom slurry, there are no wild mushrooms around right now. We've had a "nonsoon" summer instead of our expected summer monsoons. So I'll have to buy the mushrooms. And the challenge will be to keep myself from eating them instead of blending them up and throwing them on the ground. I assure you that will be a very big challenge.

Wally Jasper wrote:Hi Douglas,  I live in the high and dry country of the US southwest. Not much rain but some winters see heavy snow.  Last night we got a nice unexpected rain storm that dropped about half an inch. This morning I was again working on taking down my wood chip piles and spreading out the chips. What I saw convinced me that spreading them out is the way to go. The rain had only penetrated about a half inch down; the whole pile below that was bone dry. The chips I had spread out were nice and soggy. I also checked under the chips to see what the soil got, and it was wet underneath too. I'm spreading the chips not as thick as I did at first, because I want the ground to get water. So I think this way the chips will help hold the water in the soil better, rather than leave it open to evaporation. (I also covered the chips with a layer of partially composted pine needles. On other areas I laid down the pine needles first and covered with the chips. So I'm experimenting to see which way works best.) What do you think of all this?

Doing the mulching a bit differently in different places is a great way to learn a whole lot faster what works in your area and what doesn't. Just make sure to take notes so you can tell us [and remember, too.]. What kind of soil do you have? Sandy [like mine] or heavy with clay in its composition? rocky? I suspect your water is pretty deep underground since you say "high and dry".. My first water is at 10 ft. [Yep, I'm pretty lucky that way!] We can almost get by with a sand point. My well is 28ft deep. The only fly in the ointment is when a CAFO comes next to you and plant a 135 ft. well and want to raise 5,000 dairy cows!
When you say high and dry, how high is that? when you get heavy snows, can you take advantage of it, holding it with swales.
Mr. Google and your zip code will give you a lot of information too, like the averages of precipitation and the average of hot/ cold temperatures so you can start planning what you might want to plant.
All these details will color the advice you give and get too. If you look up my zip code, [54494] for example you will know that I'm at the limit of the glaciation, when the ice receded and left a pretty flat and sandy bed, a prairie, perfect for potatoes, that we can generally count on 30 + inches of precipitation/ year. A 61" precipitation is pretty exceptional, but it happened. Your county can also give you some good pointers on what will grow there. It can help you bat down some not quite accurate facts. the Arbor Day Foundation and other outfits that sell trees, for example, tells me that I'm in zone 5. Hmmm. OK. but I look at the things they say will grow in zone 5 and nope: I've never seen these things in my neighbors' yards.  [And yet, I have a persimmon tree which is not supposed to make it here, so there's that].
The USDA  map, which is not trying to sell me stuff puts me in zone 4b. Yep, that's more like it.
https://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/
That's another reason to like permies: you can count on the advice being candid, even when they are not sure because they are not trying to sell you stuff. They're just trying to help, as some day we all need help too.

Cecile, my soil is clay. What I have found is that it turns into a beautiful rich soil when lots of organic material is added and mixed in and watered. After one year I was thrilled to see earthworms in the newly conditioned soil. Many thanks for all your advice and help. I see your zip code is in northern Wisconsin. Yeah, I bet your hardiness zone is a 4b, way up there. How the heck did you get a persimmon to grow there? Is it inside your house? (Or are persimmons a lot hardier than I thought they were?)

Wally Jasper wrote:Cecile, my soil is clay. What I have found is that it turns into a beautiful rich soil when lots of organic material is added and mixed in and watered. After one year I was thrilled to see earthworms in the newly conditioned soil. Many thanks for all your advice and help. I see your zip code is in northern Wisconsin. Yeah, I bet your hardiness zone is a 4b, way up there. How the heck did you get a persimmon to grow there? Is it inside your house? (Or are persimmons a lot hardier than I thought they were?)

Clay does hold the precious water without which all the good stuff in compost can't do its work. Kudos on getting earthworms in a year: It took me no less than 4 years before I had my first earthworm in my sand.
You know what they say about the first million dollars being the hardest to acquire. Well, it is a bit like this for soil. starting from essentially zero, it takes a very long time before you have enough good soil to work with. Once you have that, though, you can progress much faster.

Wally Jasper wrote:Hi Douglas,  I live in the high and dry country of the US southwest. Not much rain but some winters see heavy snow.  Last night we got a nice unexpected rain storm that dropped about half an inch. This morning I was again working on taking down my wood chip piles and spreading out the chips. What I saw convinced me that spreading them out is the way to go. The rain had only penetrated about a half inch down; the whole pile below that was bone dry. The chips I had spread out were nice and soggy. ... What do you think of all this?

Given your climate, I think you're on the right track.

I'm seeing similar problems with deep chip piles. They're full of fungal filaments, but the piles dried out in our drought and decomposition stopped for two years.

This year, out of frustration, I started mixing up a slurry in half barrels, consisting of dry wood chips, dry leaves, municipal compost (free), biochar, forest soil, compost tea from my composter, and other liquid organic additions. The goal is to mix and thoroughly soak the entire mess for a week and then apply directly on top of the soil. I don't know the long term effects, but the annuals that were struggling in the drought perked right up when I put this around their roots.

Wow, that slurry sounds delicious! (Not for me but for all my little soil buddies.) I'm gonna do that. I like trying all things that sound this good.

PS   And a good helping of Redhawk's mushroom slurry added in should do the trick.

Adding fungal stuff is a good idea. That's why I added a scoop of forest soil -- it's shot through with fungal filaments.

Ah, gotcha. Great.

I just got back from my local recycling station with four big garbage bins of fresh wood chips. (Never drive empty dude! )

It got me thinking. All of the piles left for the public to use were fresh, wet chips with lots of leaves. The piles that had been sitting a while were already heating up and had tons of fungus working on them.

The piles of wood chips that have been giving me trouble (causing me to rant here) were green wood, but chipped in winter. No green leaves and minimal sap/moisture to start with. Maybe that explains why everything stalled? Hm.

That makes total sense. I also got my chips from our county recycling. And they had leaves and all. The pile that was bone dry after our rain was the pile I had raked up after spreading it, so all the leafy stuff and smaller chips got left behind on the ground. What was raked up into the piles was mostly just the larger chips. That may explain why the chips that got spread stayed wet and soggy whereas the pile didn't absorb the water nearly as well. So with this latest information, I'm pretty sure that the piles from the raked up chips will probably be most useful as mud barriers for walkways and paths rather than as garden mulch and soil building. Next week I'll go back and get a couple of loads of the fresh leafy stuff for composting.

So lovely to come back to read this thread again, having checked in before, and before that 4 years ago!  I'm on a new property this year and have two large deliveries slowly being spread where needed.  In the coop, on prospective gardens, surrounding the raised beds, and in two winecap-specific areas in the shade.  The limiting factor is my physical ability:  I just turned 70, and have a limited number of wheelbarrow loads each day, not to mention the mowing and gardening.  (The housework is a distant third, very distant!). I do realize that when I get the gardens up to size, I will have much less lawn to mow, which is all to the good.

I have trouble with clay soil in a low-lying front yard.  There is a shallow pond on the lawn much of the winter, and it flooded again in spring, and again recently.  I need to pile those chips high.  Trying to find plants that will be happy with occasional standing water, and will live through a drought (most of June) is quite a challenge.  

Bryant, thanks for your patience in answering SO many questions!  Your advice is always valuable, and is a major reason why I have just read this entire thread again.

Wally Jasper wrote:Good to know that. Will save the mycogrow for more plantings. As for mushroom slurry, there are no wild mushrooms around right now. We've had a "nonsoon" summer instead of our expected summer monsoons. So I'll have to buy the mushrooms. And the challenge will be to keep myself from eating them instead of blending them up and throwing them on the ground. I assure you that will be a very big challenge.

My grocer saves the packages that go bad for me. I pick these up on a weekly basis where I am, no one else even asks him about the mushrooms. There are 3 hog farmers that pick up ruined fruits and veggies. You might ask your grocer about spoiled mushrooms.

Redhawk

Anne Pratt wrote:So lovely to come back to read this thread again, having checked in before, and before that 4 years ago!  I'm on a new property this year and have two large deliveries slowly being spread where needed.  In the coop, on prospective gardens, surrounding the raised beds, and in two winecap-specific areas in the shade.  The limiting factor is my physical ability:  I just turned 70, and have a limited number of wheelbarrow loads each day, not to mention the mowing and gardening.  (The housework is a distant third, very distant!). I do realize that when I get the gardens up to size, I will have much less lawn to mow, which is all to the good.

I have trouble with clay soil in a low-lying front yard.  There is a shallow pond on the lawn much of the winter, and it flooded again in spring, and again recently.  I need to pile those chips high.  Trying to find plants that will be happy with occasional standing water, and will live through a drought (most of June) is quite a challenge.  

Bryant, thanks for your patience in answering SO many questions!  Your advice is always valuable, and is a major reason why I have just read this entire thread again.

Hau Anne, I would fill those depressions with chips then pour on some mushroom slurries, that will jump start the chips turning into soil. Fill the depressions anytime the chips seem low. (I have 3 tree root ball holes I'm doing this to, they started out 4 ft. deep and are now only about a foot below the grade. It's taken 3 years to fill in 3 ft. of those pits.

Redhawk

Hau Redhawk.

Great tip. Will definitely ask my grocer to save ruined mushrooms. What a waste to just throw them away.

Hau Anne, I would fill those depressions with chips then pour on some mushroom slurries, that will jump start the chips turning into soil. Fill the depressions anytime the chips seem low. (I have 3 tree root ball holes I'm doing this to, they started out 4 ft. deep and are now only about a foot below the grade. It's taken 3 years to fill in 3 ft. of those pits.

Redhawk

I've started this, and I'll follow your advice!  Again, thanks.

Anne

Wood chips are very good for everyone.

Please use wood chips in your pursuit of making good soil via the process of them breaking down over time.

In dry areas it will take much longer than in wet areas. Keep that in mind.

Peace, and love be with you all.