Feeling Salty... JK. But should we talk about salt?

First of all, thank you all for posting these recipes here! I'm eating them up (with my eyes, so far, but give me time! 😂): these are just up my alley! I'm the kind of person who incorporates what many people consider "weird stuff" into my cooking -- and then I make "normal-looking meals"... and (as opposed to being a lonely health nut, chewing on "tiger's milk" as everyone is eating chocolate cake)...feed them to my family AND to company. Interestingly enough, 99% of the time I get raving reviews, and everyone thinks I'm the best cook. I credit this to the power of nature: the taste of real is what our bodies secretly crave!

But anyway -- salt. I think this would be an interesting subject to discuss.

It looks like many people here try to avoid salt in general. In my training and experience, however, cutting out salt altogether can create health problems of its own. Instead, I'm a strong believer that when REAL SALT was created, no mistakes were made. It is only when the "big food", in an attempt to make fast profits, manufactures a chemical that tastes close enough and calls it "salt", THEN it becomes a problem.

I personally avoid regular salt like a plague. I read all the labels, and even many organic products contain regular salt, unfortunately. I use ONLY the products that specifically state "sea salt" (since it is the best version you can get in store-bought products), but in my home cooking even that is not welcome. I cook only with either himalayan salt, rock salt or celtic salt.

It is interesting to note, that on several occasions people with heart disease who have eaten dinner at my house, asked me later what I use instead of salt. I said I just used salt -- and their reply was (almost identically, with some minor variations): "Odd. Usually when I eat salty foods like these, my blood pressure shoots up. I'm used to that, and simply prepare to take a higher dose of meds... but after I ate at your house, this didn't happen". So this is not just theory or research that I read somewhere else -- this is something confirmed by personal experience.

In a nutshell, the picture that I'm attaching here, sums up my take on salt: real salt contains many trace minerals, which effect how the sodium in it is processed by our bodies -- which the "store salt" is straight up sodium chloride, and thus it has an entirely different effect. Not to mention that they use cyanide (yes, the poison) as anti-caking ingredient in regular salt -- that's so "when it rains it pours": a "genius idea" that Morton came up with about 50 years ago. to keep salt from clumping up when the humidity is high. (Don't believe me? Go to Wikipedia. look up "cyanide" - and you will see "table salt" under the "Where it is used" heading).

I have this video on YouTube where I go into all the details of explaining this -- with my point being that avoiding salt may not be the way to go, its avoiding REGULAR SALT that is healthy:


I know that many people feel that "Sodium is sodium" -- and this video is (kind of) my answer to that.

But I'd like to hear from you guys as well (especially if you avoid ALL salt): what's your take on my interpretation of "sodium is [not] sodium"?  Are there any important or interesting points that I'm missing? I think this would be fun to talk about

From what I have studied, I believe you are right. I have not heard of people noticing a difference in their blood pressure when using different types of salt, and that is definitely interesting. Though, I would point out that I also feel the official position on blood pressure is just as erroneous as the official position on reducing salt as much as possible. It's been a while since I read anything on it, but I think I'm possibly remembering the potassium in particular being important. Maybe a large dose of sodium without potassium could trigger the blood pressure in those people. The chlorine is also important. In particular, it is needed to synthesize stomach acid. Without sufficient amounts, we cannot digest food properly. If we cannot digest food properly, all health from there on suffers as Hippocrates says: "All disease begins in the gut." I have heard that while we consider most wars in history to have been fought over land and gold and such, but if we follow those even further, it turns out they were actually fought over access to salt. So yeah, salt is kind of a big deal, lol!

I have always been a salt junkie.  That being said we prefer sea salt, Himalayan, Celtic sea salt, etc.  My father got me started on those and my husband and I buy them, and use a salt grinder instead of a salt shaker.  Yum.

Jordan Holland wrote: I would point out that I also feel the official position on blood pressure is just as erroneous as the official position on reducing salt as much as possible. !

... As well as the other 90% of mainstream medical advice, IMHO.
It is interesting to note, that the percentage of when they actually CURE something is very low: for the most part, people stay on  medication for the rest of their life, and keep adding more and more as they go along.
The picture was holistic advice is the opposite, and we still have a bad rap!

Sodium is necessary for life.  However, there is a world of difference in refined salt, which is kiln dried and natural salt.  The refined stuff causes high blood pressure due to the body’s inability to break it down adequately. The trace minerals found in natural Celtic or Redmond real salt are protective factors and due to the processing or lack of, it is easy to digest.   Greatly diluted seawater sprayed on wheat fields or other crop lands, generates bumper yields.

My mother had a stroke a bunch of years back. After surgery, she was prescribed salt pills (yes, just plain salt in pill form). Apparently, that's standard practice after any damage involving the brain, as more salt is needed during healing. Also, after the stroke, she started craving salt, which she never did before, so I suppose her body proved the doctors right in this case. Interestingly, young kids often love salt. I wonder if it's because they need it to develop their brain?

Helena, welcome to the forum!

You have brought up some really good points.

I quit using salt years ago so I have not paid a lot of attention to salt.

I recently added salt back into my diet because salt makes the food taste much more interesting.

We have both sea salt and pink salt.

Is one better than the other?

For anyone that might be interested in harvesting their own salt this thread is for you:

https://permies.com/t/85170/Waynes-solar-salt-factory

Eino Kenttä wrote:My mother had a stroke a bunch of years back. After surgery, she was prescribed salt pills (yes, just plain salt in pill form). Apparently, that's standard practice after any damage involving the brain, as more salt is needed during healing. Also, after the stroke, she started craving salt, which she never did before, so I suppose her body proved the doctors right in this case. Interestingly, young kids often love salt. I wonder if it's because they need it to develop their brain?

Wow! This is fascinating! What a great insight! You're absolutely right: our bodies crave what we need, and I bet this is the case with both your mom and the kids. You were lucky to happen upon doctors like these -- it's the first time I hear about a medical doctor recommending salt. This is truly amazing!

Anne Miller wrote:Helena, welcome to the forum!

You have brought up some really good points.

I quit using salt years ago so I have not paid a lot of attention to salt.

I recently added salt back into my diet because salt makes the food taste much more interesting.

We have both sea salt and pink salt.

Is one better than the other?

For anyone that might be interested in harvesting their own salt this thread is for you:

https://permies.com/t/85170/Waynes-solar-salt-factory

Thanks a bunch for sharing this! In fact, I was literally thinking as I was making this post: "That's all good, but what would we do if the grid went down? I wonder if I should be stocking up on a lot of salt".

Your post has answered my question -- what an excellent idea! Everything genius is simple!
I'm not very versed in solar, though (in fact, going to make a post in that forum - please weight in if you can)... I wonder if simply drying it out will work?

As for sea salt vs. himalayan - no significant difference, but I just don't trust the store-bought sea -salt: I picture a sea salt plant sitting in an industrial area, with water intake right from that bay as all the barges are coming in a dropping diesel... This is my only reasoning -- I think himalayan salt is ecologically cleaner.

Helena Green wrote:.... In my training and experience, however, cutting out salt altogether can create health problems of its own.

I can't imagine what it would be like to eat food without added salt, but it brings up an interesting question of what the average body needs.  Can you elaborate on the health problems that you've encountered due to cutting out 'all' salt? And do you mean all 'added' salt?....Or some sort of diet where naturally-present salt in food is actually removed?  Since this thread was posted....and due to my own love of salt (and glowering from my physician about my hypertension)....I've pondered more the origins of added salt in the human diet.  As noted, it possibly (probably?) became more heavily used after agriculture began producing excess food that then required forms of preservation, salting being one such approach.  Since salting for preservation likely has occurred for thousands of years, and with an estimate of the birth of agriculture at around 10,000 years ago (~400 human generations), could the salting of foods have possibly skewed the human population towards a combined greater salt craving and tolerance over time?  The 'averaging' of data from medicine suggests that we have not....and that sodium levels above a certain amount are highly associated with cardiovascular problems.  The averaging, however, makes me wonder about family lines which may have greater resistance to elevated sodium and blood pressure, thereby unnecessarily being prescribed blood pressure medications in cases where it is not relevant.

My curiosity with respect to the OP's comment is that added salt would seem to be abnormal if humans evolved like other primates and mammals, just eating a mixture of what their bodies craved and what was immediately before them....not seeking to embellish the flavor.  But who knows?.....Anteaters eat some fruits and other odd things:  Are the ants and termites in their diet an 'embellishment' or are they physiologically adapted to crave ants?  Interesting topic...

As far as I know, it is impossible for any human to live without salt. In some areas, humans can get at least enough to live on from their diet without supplementation. I believe I recall that in those ancient cities in the cradle of civilization, a person needed at least a teaspoon of additional salt per day just to survive due to the arid climate. Much of this had to be mined very far away, and transported by camel to the cities, so was likely not used for simple food preservation as it was simply too expensive. Indeed, there were times in history that salt was worth more than gold. The bulk of their food was grain, which also doesn't need any more than a dry place to be preserved. If salt was expensive, I do presume the rich and powerful would have been quite opulent with it to show off, much like they did with gold. So perhaps overuse could have been spurred on by people wanting to show off their wealth.

The 'averaging' of data from medicine suggests that we have not....and that sodium levels above a certain amount are highly associated with cardiovascular problems.

Well, there's the problem. I just looked it up and the hypertension drug market is apparently worth 31.5 BILLION dollars a year with a CAGR of 3.4%. Incidentally, the page I found that gave that info was actually bemoaning the fact that that number is so low. https://www.globenewswire.com/en/news-release/2022/03/03/2396628/0/en/Hypertension-Drugs-Market-Size-US-31-502Mn-by-2028-CAGR-3-4-According-to-Acumen-Research-and-Consulting.html That is a pretty big conflict of interest.

One issue is, how is hypertension defined? Blood pressure is VERY dynamic. It changes from second to second every time we lay down, sit up, stand, walk, run, bend over, etc. Furthermore, not everyone is the same. The definition has varied widely between countries. In the US, many people today will quote 120/80 as the standard blood pressure. It looks like in 2017 the AMA decided to lower the number of what they consider hypertensive to 130/80. Why lower them? Of course they will say more research. That must mean they were wrong before then, right? How do we know they are right now if they were wrong only a few years ago? I think it has been reasonably demonstrated that elevated blood pressures for extended periods can cause organ damage and cardiovascular issues. But I think the main issue is that modern medicine wants to view virtually everything, hypertension included, as a disease when it is actually a symptom. So we end up with a system that treats the symptoms rather than the actual cause.

The body regulates blood pressure according to what the body needs, second by second. When your cells need more oxygen, glucose, etc. the most efficient means of supplying those things is to increase blood flow by making the heart pump faster. This increases blood pressure. So, if a person has an issue like hypoxia, and there isn't a normal level of oxygen in the blood, then the body automatically raises the heart rate (and BP) to make sure enough oxygen reaches the bodies extremities. A person's immune system goes into overdrive due to an infection? BP goes up to supply the extra needed energy. In any remotely normally functioning human body, an increase in blood pressure is pretty much always done for a reason.

While the amount of salt intake can affect BP, is that the true issue? Since salt is needed as an electrolyte, having too little does not allow the body to function as it needs to. If the body knows it needs to elevate blood pressure to keep everything functioning properly and we starve it of salt in order to force that BP down to some arbitrary number, does that help, or hurt? The same can be said of BP drugs, with the addition of extra chemicals to be filtered out by the organs and other side effects (including a 400% increase in the likelihood of stroke). I think it is far better to find out and address the original issue that gives the body a reason to raise the blood pressure. I am afraid we now have millions of people whose bodies are suffering from a plethora of maladies all due to chasing after ever lower and lower blood pressure. Their bodies try to fix what is wrong with them, but they keep taking action to suppress the symptoms (which are actually the bodies' actions to try to fix the real problems).

I personally believe in the "water ape" hypothesis of human evolution, which says that a lot of our physical peculiarities (hairlessness, downward-pointing nostrils, ample subcutaneous fat, just to mention a few) evolved during a time when our ancestors lived mainly on the shore and got large parts of their food from the water. And even if this hypothesis would turn out to be wrong, a glance at the distribution of human settlements from basically any time in history will show that our species likes hanging out around water. If a lot of the food of our deep ancestors came from the sea, it would make sense that we're adapted to some level of salt in our diet, which is not present in most agricultural diets unless you add it (mussels and seaweed contain way more salt than oats and potatoes). Of course, the dose makes the poison, and basing your diet on salted pork or similar is probably a bad idea.

Anyhow, as has been mentioned, sea salt, and even more the salt naturally found in seafood, probably works quite different in the body compared to pure NaCl, especially if it's sodium that's responsible for most of the adverse effects. I wonder, for instance, if the ratio of sodium versus potassium intake could affect the outcome? Nerve cells (and some other cell types) use Na+ and K+ ions in tandem to generate action potentials. If the ratio between them is wrong, I imagine it might do all kinds of interesting not-so-nice things to the body. The modern diet is typically deficient in potassium. Seawater (and sea salt) does contain some potassium, but not nearly as much as it does sodium. However, at least some seaweeds even out this difference, and actually contain more potassium than sodium. So, yeah, I wonder if our salt cravings evolved in the context of sea food, and the problem arises when we try to replace this with pure NaCl...

Jordan Holland wrote:.....It looks like in 2017 the AMA decided to lower the number of what they consider hypertensive to 130/80. Why lower them? Of course they will say more research. That must mean they were wrong before then, right? How do we know they are right now if they were wrong only a few years ago? I think it has been reasonably demonstrated that elevated blood pressures for extended periods can cause organ damage and cardiovascular issues. But I think the main issue is that modern medicine wants to view virtually everything, hypertension included, as a disease when it is actually a symptom. So we end up with a system that treats the symptoms rather than the actual cause.....

I'm on the fence about the 'replacement' nature of medical discovery....the "last week you said butter was bad, this week you say butter is good", except to say that I wish the results were reported more as "...these were the results of one study and here are the pitfalls of our study...".  I accept the fact that advances and new discoveries will be made, thereby replacing the old models and knowledge. But that endeavor gets poisoned by so many competing forces unfortunately.  Also agree with the highly questionable approach of treating 'numbers' (BP levels, blood/urine chemistry levels, etc.) as a disease, especially as it takes a one-size-fits-all approach (versus the more expensive personalized approach) to medical treatment.

Eino Kenttä wrote:...I wonder, for instance, if the ratio of sodium versus potassium intake could affect the outcome? Nerve cells (and some other cell types) use Na+ and K+ ions in tandem to generate action potentials....

Yes, absolutely....cells contain all sorts of pumps for positively-charged ions like sodium, potassium, calcium, and hydrogen ion (H+).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK537088/#:~:text=The%20Na%2B%20K%2B%20pump%20is,for%20every%20single%20ATP%20consumed.

Moreover, there have been a rash of studies in recent years *suggesting* that part of the Mediterranean diet's positive influence may be due to an elevated ratio of potassium to sodium, with the level of sodium intake possibly not that different from standard diets in industrialized societies.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34444841/