Nathanael Szobody wrote:..... I put a shovel of manure in each zai, cover that with a shovel of peanut shells, and I'm wondering if I shouldn't put a shovel of dirt on top of that? ...
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Nathanael Szobody wrote:Thanks for the suggestions C Roberts.
I would point out that you can get tapeworms from cattle, especially in this part of the world, and their eggs are incredibly resistant, so there is definitely a pathogen concern. However, it is good to know that I can use it directly. Here's what I did yesterday: dug a pit, layered it with peanut shells and manure, 1:1, planted a banana tree in the middle, a cover of sorghum and sesame over the surface of the pit, some pigeon pea around the edge, and mulched it. Hopefully this will be a good model.
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Phil Swindler wrote:Maybe I'm the only wise ass here. But, I can't help but wonder why nobody else said this.
If you were here in the United States, I'd recommend, with an ample supply of manure, you could consider a career in politics.
Orin Raichart wrote:
if it were me, it would be peanut shells first, the manure, then soil.....or if you want peanut shell first, manure, peanut shell, then soil.
Again the thinking is the peanut shells will soak up and retain the water at the bottom for longer......of course you could do multiple holes of each and see what works the best!
I've seen red earthworms demolish many things I didn't know they could...I don't think they can do dry peanut shells...but moist wet peanut shells I'm not so certain about. Do you have animals like the USA racoon which likes to eat earthworms?
-Nathanael
Justin Joy wrote:
I know you feel like you have a lot of material to work with now, but I would urge you to strongly reconsider your position on nitrogen fixing trees, or for that matter litter trees.
These resources you have are outside sources even if they appear to be limitless, and you've even illustrated yourself that you have a shortage of carbonaceous material on sight.
Setting up trees to be coppiced to add carbon into your soils would be incredibly beneficial to have on sight.
Shade and evapotranspiration will reduce the amount of moisture loss in soils as well.
As more material builds organic matter in your soils moisture retention will also continue to improve.
Until the trees are large enough to coppice tall faster growing plants like summer grasses or bushes would fill that gap until your trees are large enough to assist.
You are doing great work,
- Justin J.
-Nathanael
C Rogers wrote:
One thing I didn't see (though I may have missed it) is if people there use wood or similar things to cook and/or heat with just remember that ash and charcoal/biochar are both great amendments to the soil too and can be a free source for you. (ash has K-potassium, charcoal/biochar is a great source of C-carbon and holds water and nutrients well too)
-Nathanael
Hans Albert Quistorff, LMT projects on permies Hans Massage Qberry Farm magnet therapy gmail hquistorff
Hans Quistorff wrote:Something that has not been mentioned that I do for my dry season is covering the mulched ground with carpet or tarps. I have collected a lot of discarded carpet. As I am gathering mulch material now at the end of the wet season I put it on the night droppings from the chickens and then cover it with the carpet. I will transplant squash and melons along the edges where pieces meet. The vines cover the carpet and the fruit is protected while the soil growing underneath is protected from the sun and wind. Non poiseness snakes and worms use the habitat removing pests and improving the soil.
You may not have the same material available but possibly spoiled blankets or garments are available.
-Nathanael
C. E. Rice wrote:
Hans Quistorff wrote:
You may not have the same material available but possibly spoiled blankets or garments are available.
My experience though is that grasses and plants and roots will still grow into the carpet fibers on the edge and when the carpet is older.... it will tear and leave behind small amounts of these 'plastic' carpet fibers. Also... the backing... tends to shed when it is older. That glue material crumbles like dirt... but it isn't dirt.. it is some synthetic gick as well. So. you end up doing a small amount of contamination as well.
Have you been able to avoid this Hans? Or is it not significant enough to be concerned about?
Hans Albert Quistorff, LMT projects on permies Hans Massage Qberry Farm magnet therapy gmail hquistorff
im lazy right with you! ;)Orin Raichart wrote:
Nathanael Szobody wrote:..... and when I dug into an aged pile I found it nicely moist only one foot down. It hasn't rained since October!!
Sweeeet! this means, if you choose to, you can now make 1 foot rows all over your land of peanut shell and manure and it will remain moist for all the plants you put on top!!!
Nathanael Szobody wrote:So why plant nitrogen fixing trees when I have so much manure available? Shouldn't I go directly into fruit tree polycultures?
This is a Red Hawk question.....my answer is a weak novice answer while he could give you a technical break down -I will remain silent to this question for him or other to give you a bio chemical explanation. Part of the answer is the nitrogen fixing roots will continue to provide nitrogen for a while longer than just the nitrogen in the manure. You have the option of putting some nitrogen fixing trees/plants which provide food along with the fruit trees so both things happen at once....again I'm not the expert.
Nathanael Szobody wrote:You suggest topping the peanut shells with manure; is that better than just mixing them?
Yep, I'm lazy like that....here's why that's a good lazy. the roots from your plantings will partially do the work of breaking up the shells and that's on top of all the little bacteria and insects which will work the soil......in the mean time you have a hidden water tank in the form of the shells under your manure which will take years to slowly turn into soil.
Eric's right, you could use the brown material.....but again I'm much lazier than he is. I would lay down the shells directly on the ground, then a layer of manure, a layer of brown and a layer of manure....it'll mix itself and you will also mix it when you harvest and add more manure / shells when you get more again.
steve bossie wrote:i wonder if you put the peanut shells in a barrel and pound them with a small log to break them up? i think that would work well. id definitely put some soil over those holes. why can't you just lay down a layer of peanut shells then 6in. of manure on top then cover with some browns you have available to keep the manure in place until it breaks down? eliminates digging all together.
-Nathanael
Hans Albert Quistorff, LMT projects on permies Hans Massage Qberry Farm magnet therapy gmail hquistorff
Hans Quistorff wrote:Have You considered making a methane digester and using the gas for cooking? Then the digestate could be used for fertilizer. I imagine much of what could be used in your complst is in demand to feed the cattle.
-Nathanael
-Nathanael
Nathanael Szobody wrote:[a little off topic: what do the exclamation points mean before the title of my post?]
"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young
Some places need to be wild
Eric Hanson wrote:Nathanael,
I have to say, you came to Permies to look for ways to utilize enormous amounts of manure. Judging from your pictures, projects and experiences I have to say that I think that you are the authority on how to manage this resource. All of the rest of us can throw out ideas, but you are the one putting them into practice.
Really, great job,
Eric
-Nathanael
Some places need to be wild
C Rogers wrote:
I also have a large source of manure, though mine is from a neighbor who has 3 breeder type chicken houses and produces over 300 tons of manure a year, I get about 20-30 tons of last years manure (composted for 1 year) and use about 6-8 tons to the acre and with whats left over I add to my worm compost pile.
I'm thinking about a new battle cry. Maybe "Not in the face! Not in the face!" Any thoughts tiny ad?
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