grow tomatoes without irrigation or fertilizer

How are Poplar logs as a Hugelkultur base? Will it sprout, as the roots do?

Roxanne Sterling-Falkenstein
aka Wilde Hilde

I would think the bed needs to mature maybe 2 years for it to really grow them well.the deeprooted weeds like burdock thistle alnog with comfrey and some mangle beets could be planted the first year.... assusming they grow fairly well the whole thing smothered in deep mulch ( and I know you don't like it but cardboard or some thing suitable to somther the plants. )...in the straw plant the cover crops... buckwheat is a good one.. and then tomatoes and whatever else a high enough bed might warm up earlier too. are innoculations not part of the contest? I would innoculate with miccorhizzae? oops how that? Sam

Roxanne: I buried freshly cut poplar trees and have only had two trees pop up in a 100 foot X 50 foot area. I'm only one example of course so it may work out differently for someone else. I put a 2-4 inch layer of hay on top of the trees, which may have blocked some sprouts. Not sure though.

Here are varieties of tomato from the Southwest, they might be a good place to start to breed especially drought tolerant varieties: https://www.nativeseeds.org/index.php/store/56/2/seeds/tomatoes

In regards to using dandelions in tomatoe guilds, another benefit is I believe I remember reading once that dandelions are often (at least in NE) the first source of pollen available to bee's. Which is important in helping them get an early start in brood rearing. Also I was unaware that they were accumulators so thanks for that bit o info!

We had great success growing tomatoes in strawbales last year in MI. We got the bales a little later in the season and missed the rains but once the bales were saturated and with the addition of some kelp, mycorrhizae, beneficial microbes, and blood and bone meal those tomatoes out performed those planted in soil in the gardens. The bales were placed on a concrete parking lot in rows as long planting beds and we wrapped the outer edges with black plastic to encourage quicker decomp and retain moisture however that was also due to getting a late start and missing all three rainy seasons and starting in late May. This year we plan to get a little earlier of a start and frame the bales in with lumber but they could also be buried or just the addition of straw to a hugelkultur setup would work too. My point is that the roots of these plants had grown nearly six feet long underneath the bales and were fat and healthy. I couldn't believe how big and long they were. I think if the medium tomatoes are grown in has just begun a decomp process and is fairly aerated allowing ease of root growth, those roots will continue to grow and find water where it is. Similar to hydroponics roots are unimpeded and will grow to large proportions. Obstructions and compact soils are what stifle root growth. So, the only other question would be not using fertilizer. hmmm. White clover for nitrogen? As a cover crop started in the fall as soon as the bales are saturated? Place the bales out in rows in early fall to get rainfall, contain rainfall until bales are saturated and begin to decomp then plant dutch white clover and possibly comfrey along the outer edges to be slashed and dropped as mulch throughout the season? Now you've got me thinking. LOL. To get around mycorrhizae you could just dig a few scoops of healthy forest soil and add it to the top of the bales along with compost then mulch it over to begin decomp. Hope something in my post is of use.

Paul and Kelda continue reviewing Sepp Holzer's Permaculture (the book), chapter 1 part 5 in this podcast: podcast

At the beginning, Kelda describes her irrigated vs non-irrigated tomato taste test.

If you have chosen your land wisely you might be able to do what I do here in West Virginia. I have hills all around me. Look for hill on your land that has a solid stone substrate close to the topsoil (my topsoil has a lot of clay in it) and is on the south facing slope, look for a lot of rock outcrops in the hillside as a guide. Find where the rock is closest to the topsoil at the base of the hill. When it rains it sometimes takes two weeks or more for the water to leech out into the soil at the base of the hill because it takes a while to get through the clay. Plant crops that don't like lots of water further away or raised from the base of the hill accordingly. I never have to water, ever. Mileage may vary according to geography and climate.

the deep and wide (i.e. 2ft paths dug out and dumped on top of 4ft beds) with mulch (grass clippings, leaves, whatever) has worked for me. At least with transplants planted deep. We get lots of rain and but have had drought too. I've seen the walking paths flooded (clay below) and had the so hard you can't get a shovel in.

This year I grew grape tomatoes with almost no watering and absolutely no fertilizer. Just a single plant as a test and I've picked about 100 tomatoes off of it so far. I planted these tomato seeds last year at the base of where my pole beans were growing in November when temperatures were in the low 60's at night and high 70's during the day. We got very little rain through January and just a couple of front related showers in Feb. but this was enough water to get them to sprout up. 5 plants sprouted and only one survived until the next rain. The spot I had chosen for this little experiment is in the drip zone of a young tangerine tree. I mulched this area heavily with about 8 inches of pine straw the year before. My pole beans were grown in 4 inch tall mounds of compost placed directly on top of the mulch and the tomatoes were seeded directly into one of those mounds. I think the key for my success here was the fact that these tomatoes were the third generation in my garden. I had an heirloom variety of yellow pear shaped tomatoes that a neighbor gave me 2 years ago that I seeded and grew last year. I grew them in a bed with some heirloom cherry tomatoes, grape tomatoes, plum tomatoes and carrots last year and collected seeds from all of those but I'm not the best at labeling so I'm not sure which ones these tomatoes came from. What I got is a grape size tomato that grows indeterminately. It starts and remains quite sweet like those yellow pear shaped tomatoes did. They ripen to an orange color and the tops stay green even when the bottoms turn to a puddle of goo, not that it matters because they are sweet when they are green too. We had 3 weeks without rain before I saw them start to wilt and on the 4th week without rain I decided to water them well. I've had 2 people tell me that they liked these even though they don't like tomatoes. It makes me think of Fukuoka when I hear this because he always advocated for the quality of produce once it had moved a few generations away from a common cultivar. I often let my volunteer plants go to fruit to see if I won the lottery or lost my shirt. I had a particularly bitter tasting tomato grow up among some yellow lettuce. I buried that particular plant in a hole under the live oak but I saved a few seeds to try in other places in hopes of the soil and surrounding plants having been the origin of the bitterness. I walked through the garden yesterday and I saw some new volunteer tomatoes with purple starter stems, I can't wait to see what those end up being.

I am curious about how swiss chard and tomatoes get along. I have not had the giant leaves like
grow on chard in the great northwest so I don't think the tomatoes will get crowded out. The Swiss chard
has been very good and I hate to take it out.

This year I have one tomato cage in each bed along with something else. I have 15 heirloom varieties and they
have all been in the ground 3 weeks or more and normally I have not even planted until April 15. I hope the
weather holds!

This shows the Swiss Chard and the cage has a couple of seedlings in it but they are planted deep
they were the same size as the one still in the pot. There are some onions and garlic and the bed
is primarily planted in strawberries.

This sounds quite a bit like dry farming.


http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/localnews/ci_15957477
http://www.veggiegardener.com/reduce-watering-by-dry-farming-tomatoes/

Basically, dry farming is growing crops without any irrigation to supplement rainfall. This does not mean your tomatoes will not be watered, just that you are not irrigating them yourself with drip irrigation or other watering methods. The plants are water only by rainfall only. Of course in extreme drought conditions you will need to water the tomato plants a little to keep them alive. Under normal weather conditions, dry farming is used.

Tomatoes that are overwatered tend to taste bland and watery. Dry farming creates a more flavorful tomato because the tomato plant will concentrate its sugars into the fruit, and can also help the tomato ripen much quicker.

In California where torrential rains saturate the soil in the winter and the summers are bone-dry, our climate naturally allows for dry-farming, a method where all irrigation is cut off after the plants have become established. This lack of water stresses the plant, forcing its roots deep into the soil in search of water and focuses its efforts on producing fruit. The resulting tomatoes are usually smaller and lower in yield but pack tremendous flavor and texture.

Dry-farming is also an environmentally sound practice as it uses much less water than conventional methods, a big issue in California. The method is centuries old, orriginating in the Mediterranean where it is still being used for growing grapes and olives. Here in California, other fruits and vegetables such as melons, squash, and potatoes can be dry-farmed, as well as wheat and corn and other grains.

I've found that my dog, as she picks the ripe toms that she things are balls, does a really good job of planting new tomatoes. I have them coming up everywhere! I can't believe it's the middle of autumn and I'm still picking tomatoes, but i've got them growing on every side of the garden now and it's amazing to see where that sun reaches or where the compost mulch has really warmed up.

I find it unusual that in this particular category, there are no facts to back up the non-use of fertilizer. Has anyone taken a BRIX reading and confirmed that the resulting produce is of high BRIX? Looks and taste can be highly deceiving - once you start taking BRIX levels with a refractometer you realize this.

Davilyn Eversz wrote:I find it unusual that in this particular category, there are no facts to back up the non-use of fertilizer. Has anyone taken a BRIX reading and confirmed that the resulting produce is of high BRIX? Looks and taste can be highly deceiving - once you start taking BRIX levels with a refractometer you realize this.

I for one won't be whipping out any refractometers. I eat all the evidence anyway.

Alex Ames wrote:

Davilyn Eversz wrote:I find it unusual that in this particular category, there are no facts to back up the non-use of fertilizer. Has anyone taken a BRIX reading and confirmed that the resulting produce is of high BRIX? Looks and taste can be highly deceiving - once you start taking BRIX levels with a refractometer you realize this.

I for one won't be whipping out any refractometers. I eat all the evidence anyway.

In tomatoes that look and taste good where would the need for a high BRIX come in. If tomatoes were only sweet
you would not have as much as you have with the acidic balance, at least in my opinion. If the purpose is scientific
in nature to prove or disprove the advantages or disadvantages of fertilizer that would spoil all the fun of making
unfounded claims.

I have a small patch of tomatoes here in zone 10 - it has been planted late - a month ago, and is shaded most of the day (by a huge carob-tree) except late afternoon (very very hot). It is irrigated but only with the water from our sink in the bathroom - very very little water comming through there. It is planted on a terrace, except for rocks the terrace is filled with wood, old clothes some coal and ashes from the pizzaoven (olive and carob tree), some (storebought) compost and heavily mulched. They are growing - even throughout this past month where we have had little to no water, they are growing. Slowly, and I should shade them from the afternoon sun, but have been too busy dealing with the water issue, but growing. In the next veggiebed I have a volunteer avocadotree - maybe the two would do well together?

I saw a tomato-plant that had grown into a bush - it must have some seriously deep roots! It wasn't pretty though, but I bet it didn't need much water.

paul wheaton wrote:This is me at the Missoula public library answering questions after we watched a Sepp Holzer movie. The question is how do you raise water sensitive garden plants without irrigation.

Techniques listed in this video include: polyculture, more humidity leads to more morning dew, hugelkultur, and tap roots.

Paul,
I have figured out how to avoid the issue here in flat hot dry Oklahoma. Now I do a modified hugleculture from time to time, and it does work. Lots of work though. The thing I found that has worked the best is polyculture, living mulch, good paper and mulch, and companion planting. No tomato plant is further than 1 foot from virgin sod...sod that has deep root 10 -20 feet deep or more. I also plant giant sunflowers periodically situated sparsely to provide shade. I also use herbs like basil tarragon and oregano as understory. When I walk in the grass early morning, even during heat waves of 100 degree +, my feet get soaked with water. I guess most must be dew, but pretty sure a lot is sucked up from very deep by the grasses. I loose maybe 1 or 2 per 100 tomatoes per year. Not bad for a no work system.

My biggest juicest tomatoes came from volunteers.
The twenty foot long bed at the south end of my yard was filled with sunchokes,grape and kiwi vine,bindweed and lambsquarters,never watered and rarely weeded yet the tomatoes thrive.
I blame the layer of leaves I put on the bed every year.
I have a new property this year and I'm looking forward to the fall harvest of my nieborhood leaves.

Scott Strough wrote:
No tomato plant is further than 1 foot from virgin sod...sod that has deep root 10 -20 feet deep or more. I also plant giant sunflowers periodically situated sparsely to provide shade. I also use herbs like basil tarragon and oregano as understory. When I walk in the grass early morning, even during heat waves of 100 degree +, my feet get soaked with water. I guess most must be dew, but pretty sure a lot is sucked up from very deep by the grasses. I loose maybe 1 or 2 per 100 tomatoes per year. Not bad for a no work system.

hicott, sorry when you speak of virgin sod what plant is it, do you have a scientific name, it's just because if i go and look it up on google nothing specific comes out. I'm interested in your polyculture palette

As a couple people mentioned, naturalizing the plants can go a long way. Modern tomato varieties have not been bred for drought tolerance. If one used a technique such as mass selection breeding and selects for increased drought tolerance, naturalization, and even the ability to self seed, then one could produce a plant which requires no additional inputs. Personally I like the idea of starting with wild stock, and selecting traits from that point in order to create a new variety. The plant varieties that already exist have decreased genetic diversity caused by selection through time, but wild plants have a wide range of possibilities just waiting to be selected.

Yes it's possible....for the water you can make an heavy mulching, with the dew is caught during the night !!! In some part of south Italy (where the summer is very dry) they use this technique with good results...moreover Tomatoese are quite resistant to dry condition compared to other vegetables.

we can grow everything without fertilizer or irrigation. hugelkultur has great benefits for those of us with wood around that needs using.

the key to not needing fertilizer or irrigation is the organic content of our soils. as in gabe brown video below high organic content soil can hold billions of gallons of water, or more important can hold the rain water for use on your plants. the most effective way to increase organic content is with microbes. if you do not want to kill the microbes you need to not till the soil. hugelkultur is one way to not till the soil, but there are much easier ways. i grew in sand subsoil in a failed monsoon in india, probably a total of 1 inch of rain during the whole season, with nothing but microbe tea with fantastic results. (lots of other examples as well). i could see the sand turn into black humus inch by inch as the season progressed. see elaine ingham the roots of your profits.

i watched my friend today rototill his greenhouse. there were some weeds 2-3 feet tall. there was more bare soil. the bare soil was already not encouraging microbes. he could have planted his tomato starts right into the weeds, where there was bare earth, then he could have cut down the weeds near the tomato plants for chop and drop. or he could have left the weed roots in the soil and fermented the weeds for 21 days and then used those to drastically increase his microbes. rototilling the soil is what "everyone" does but it it is a lot more work and does not help with desertification.

the important point to me is not whether it is economically (or in other ways viable) to put external inputs on the soil, but what are the ramifications to the earth of 11% organic content, how the soil will hold the water, how the soil will hold the carbon, how holding the water if a lot of us did it this way would reverse drought and again with a lot of us doing it would reverse desertification. and possibly more important if we can model ways for farmers to make a viable living, and reverse desertification, drought and climate change, we will have solved many problems at once.


also see gabe brown who grows everything without fertilizer with 15 inches of moisture a year in north dakota.


Keys To Building a Healthy Soil - Organic - Permaculture and Polyculture
Gabe Brown Soil Conservationist - Explains how to remediate and build up your soil quality. .

i have discovered these things over the years on my own projects, but have do not have my own video, so am using other folks who are also doing this.

Mike E wrote:I'd just reiterate the early start, as I consider it to be pretty critical - especially in a semi-arid mediterranean climate like ours here in central CA. You want to aim for germination eight to ten weeks prior to the end of rainy season, so you can capitalize on stored moisture in the ground for initial growth of the transplants (when it's most important). "Potting up" the starts as required for root space is important too, especially in regard to tomatoes, as is minimal disturbance of the root systems when you're handling the starts or transplanting them. Combined with mulch and/or a hugel/raised bed, I think they'd yield all summer with maybe a watering or three to help them along if they get too stressed. I watched "organic" row-cropped heirloom tomatoes (no raised beds, no mulch, no nothing) produce for the last month and a half of dry season last year with zero irrigation, withstanding zero humidity and 90+ temps daily with barely noticeable decreases in yield. The quality of the fruit, on the other hand, was greatly improved (lower moisture content apparently = higher brix [sweetness] and better flavor).

Where are you in California. I know a couple of places near the bay area grow dry farmed tomatoes and melons. What they do have is moisture in the air from the ocean. They are on the edge of the fog zone. We lived in Davis, 90 miles from the ocean but the marine influence brought us cool temperatures and really heavy dew almost ever night in the summer. Even so no one has succeeded in dry farming tomatoes in Davis with temps 90-100+ and
Zero rain.

Beemail Hatfield wrote:

The best way to make grow tomatos with out irrigation and fertilizer wold be to delelop a variety itself.  Grow the garden without fertilizer and water and collect the seeds from the most desireable plants year after year.  However this method takes much patience grasshopper.

I feel like this is exactly what I want from my direct seeded tomato breeding project. A tomato that can be direct seeded, dry farmed, and not fertilized in my climate. What is more my initial forays make it seem possible.

Joseph and Andrew sent me seeds for Solanum penellii x domestic F2 and Solanum habrochaites x domestic G2 and F3  In 2018 I planted about a dozen of each and got one of each to set seed. While watering very little. About a 10% sucess rate. Or from a plant breeding perspective perfect for improvement. These were transplants but my direct seeded experiments were watered lightly as well and I produced my own F2 seed from that. So 2019 should be interesting.  

In 2019 I direct seeded tomatoes without irrigating. Can't say I fertilized them much either. Though I did add some sand around some that weren't doing well.

2019 was the perfect year to do this here as it rained regularly.

Not irrigating slows things down. Tomatoes got ripe later. Genetically the earliest tomatoes were bun without irrigation. My now old standby for earliness sweet cherriette was later than at least one segregating G2 tomato under these conditions. So a tomato bred for thus situation might have a different set of genes.

In 2020 I just direct seeded for a fourth year. I do have some organic fertilizer this year. I probably also will water in the first half of the season till green tomatoes form. It is April 25th. Last day of frost on average is May 15th. Seeding twenty days before is intentional. I seeded some BH x W4 G2 genetics from Joseph Lofthouse this year and a smaller seeding of Big Hill without isolation grown next to 3/4 wild and half wild interspecies tomato crosses with penellii and habrochaites. This is the biggest trial of the wild crosses I've done with the direct seeding but a smaller area direct seeded. Just one long row instead of seven or so last year. Have a lot of wild crosses though.

... have a lot of wild crosses I grew as transplants and a lot of tomato transplants in general.

I just got back from my raised garden bed.  The raised bedding consists solely of wood chips that are being broken down by wine cap mushrooms.  This year I have tomatoes growing in one half of the bed.  The tomatoes are planted in fertile holes dug 3 years ago and were filled with bagged manure.  The holes have been grown in every year since first establishment and included some heavy feeders.  Since the initial deposit of bagged manure, no additional chemical fertility has been added in.

However, the Wine Cap fungus continues to grow and digest the wood and it especially grows in close association with tomato (and other plant) roots.  The tomatoes growing today are lush and vibrant green.  Further, I added no additional water to the bed since planting back in June and it has been a very hot and dry summer.  Still, the plants produced plenty of tomatoes and shows no signs of drought stress.  Since I became a fungal convert a few years ago I am completely convinced in the ability of biology to supply all of the plant needs that we (collectively) attribute to chemistry.  This includes everything from NPK, to micronutrients right down to water itself.

For my own part, I can’t think of a better way to grow any garden vegetables than to incorporate lots of wood chips and appropriate fungi.

Eric

I have a 6 1/2 by 4 ft raised bed with large logs in the bottom and it's 30" high, but alas, despite the wood as a sponge, my tomatoes require regular watering. I had to disturb the soil more than I'd like in the spring, because one corner of the bed split and I had to shovel the area out in order to make repairs.

I also tried a few rocks to mulch each plant, but again, I don't think the dew gets that deep with all the greenery surrounding the rocks. It is a very crowded bed with parsley and kale shading the soil.

I haven't added any fertilizer other than topping up the bed with compost in the spring. I would like to try adding mushrooms to see if it would help.