Using fresh ground wheat for bread

Okay, I have had a lot of trouble with this and hoping someone here has answers!  I've got bread making books, sourdough books, and a culinary degree and none of these things is helping me get the same results from freshly ground whole wheat (i.e. large holes, crispy-crunchy crust) as I can get from store bought processed.  I can turn out a brick, reliably, over and over. But oven spring is almost non-existent, especially with sourdough.

I bake my bread in a cast iron dutch oven which forms a pretty good crust but the crumb is just so dense.  I've upped the hydration lately and that helps some but if I try to bake it on a baking stone, it spreads like a pancake!  I want to start sprouting the grains eventually, as well, so any experience here is a bonus. My bestie sprouts hers but she's having the same problem as I am. She gets bricks.

Any ideas?

I also get bricks if I use straight wheat flour and don't mix white with it.  I was told that I should start by using only 25% wheat flour and work my way up until I find the mix that I want.   I was also told that using hard white or soft white wheat will give me different results but I have 5 buckets of hard red spring wheat from a farmer friend of mine and I want to use that if possible. So my next task is to start with 25% fresh ground wheat flour and 75% 'white' and try it.  We shall see.  I also usually add honey to my bread, which may be adding to the weight, so I plan to change that around as well...just a thought anyway. Good luck!

Gina Jeffries wrote:  I've upped the hydration lately and that helps some but if I try to bake it on a baking stone, it spreads like a pancake!  I want to start sprouting the grains eventually, as well, so any experience here is a bonus. My bestie sprouts hers but she's having the same problem as I am. She gets bricks.

Any ideas?

Are you hand kneading the dough?  I found that when I hand kneaded my bread I didn’t end up with the pancake. Also what kind of rise do you do with the sourdough?  I found 12-16 hours gave me the best flavor and spongiest dough…. Though that was with more processed flour.

Though I had similar issues with the pancakes and harder dough, unless I allowed a much longer rise.

Sometimes the wheat is old. It helps to grind the wheat, add salt, mix those two ingredients. Pour boiling water over the grain in proper proportion (1 t salt per cup boiling water) and cover (like gruel bread). Let cool. When cool, add active sourdough and mix. A pinch of ginger delights the yeast. Fold after 2 hours and on the half hour after that creating bubbles until doubled in size. Put in cold room or fridge for a day or three. Shape moist loaf. Slash and spritz right before baking in hot brick-lined oven (500F). Spritz bricks for extra oven spring.

John Wibel wrote:Are you hand kneading the dough?  

I don't, I have physical limitations that prevent it so I use a dough hook.  If I had to knead by hand, I'd be done with homemade bread  🤪

Amy Gardener wrote:Slash and spritz right before baking in hot brick-lined oven (500F). Spritz bricks for extra oven spring.

Not sure where I can get a brick lined oven, lol, but it'd sure be nice to have! I do have lava rocks in a pan in the bottom of my oven that I pour boiling water over to make steam. Works good!

Lava works great, Gina! I arrange 8, 1" thick bricks on the bottom of the oven to hold the heat steady when I open the door. Electric oven users can put the brick or lava layer on the bottom shelf. A large quantity of lava or brick provides necessary thermal mass for steady heat storage in the oven. Spritzing provides ample steam heat burst for oven spring.

You have to HAVE TO work the dough to activate the gluten. I use hard red winter with no additional flour... with a white flour from the store, you don't have to work the dough more than a minute to get it the right texture, but with fresh ground wheat, you want the dough to start out sticky (not a puddle, but not pulling off your hands with no residue), and then you knead it for a good ten minutes until, as my uncle always said, "it's as soft as a baby's bottom." It's never going to be a light fluffy loaf, but you'll get a decent peasant bread if you just have a bit of patience. If you have a mixer with a dough hook, you can do the same thing, obviously.

My recipe, for reference (I use a coffee mug to measure, recipe courtesy of above-mentioned uncle):

1/2 mug oil (I use melted lard, butter, or sometimes olive oil)
1/2 mug sugar (or honey - you can increase or decrease according to taste)
1 palmful of salt (about the size of a quarter in your palm)
1 generous palmful yeast (or replace with a decent amount of sourdough starter)
1 mug of warm water
Enough flour to get the dough to the right consistency (something like four cups for a normal sized mug)

Knead until smooth and not leaving residue. Let rise in a covered bowl for an hour or doubled in size. Punch the dough back, shape into loaf, and place in greased pan to rise another hour or doubled in size. Bake at 350F for 30-45 minutes, or until top of loaf sounds hollow when flicked.

As you can imagine, my loaves never are the same way twice! They generally all come out a good consistency, however - it took me several months to troubleshoot cooking with fresh ground wheat. My first attempts were literal bricks - even the squirrels wouldn't touch them.

I love bread but am sensitive to gluten. I find gluten free bread to be a "less than" experience. Anybody got a terrific gluten free bread recipe?

Thanks for sharing, Ann. I'm definitely going to try your recipe and be patient if have to troubleshoot a few times.
I've made some bricks the birds and squirrels didn't want lol

Ann Zotter wrote:You have to HAVE TO work the dough to activate the gluten. I use hard red winter with no additional flour... with a white flour from the store, you don't have to work the dough more than a minute to get it the right texture, but with fresh ground wheat, you want the dough to start out sticky (not a puddle, but not pulling off your hands with no residue), and then you knead it for a good ten minutes until, as my uncle always said, "it's as soft as a baby's bottom." It's never going to be a light fluffy loaf, but you'll get a decent peasant bread if you just have a bit of patience. If you have a mixer with a dough hook, you can do the same thing, obviously.

My recipe, for reference (I use a coffee mug to measure, recipe courtesy of above-mentioned uncle):

1/2 mug oil (I use melted lard, butter, or sometimes olive oil)
1/2 mug sugar (or honey - you can increase or decrease according to taste)
1 palmful of salt (about the size of a quarter in your palm)
1 generous palmful yeast (or replace with a decent amount of sourdough starter)
1 mug of warm water
Enough flour to get the dough to the right consistency (something like four cups for a normal sized mug)

Knead until smooth and not leaving residue. Let rise in a covered bowl for an hour or doubled in size. Punch the dough back, shape into loaf, and place in greased pan to rise another hour or doubled in size. Bake at 350F for 30-45 minutes, or until top of loaf sounds hollow when flicked.

As you can imagine, my loaves never are the same way twice! They generally all come out a good consistency, however - it took me several months to troubleshoot cooking with fresh ground wheat. My first attempts were literal bricks - even the squirrels wouldn't touch them.

tom olofsson wrote:I love bread but am sensitive to gluten. I find gluten free bread to be a "less than" experience. Anybody got a terrific gluten free bread recipe?

I used to work at a 100% dedicated gluten free bakery. We made brioche, 5 seed, sourdough, cinnamon rolls, etc, etc,. It was really amazing, I wish I could remember the recipes. If you're interested, they ship.   https://5bsbakery.com/