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toilet alternatives

Managing “waste” in the cold high desert

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posted 1 year ago

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I live part time in the high desert of northern New Mexico. I’m about 2700’ higher in elevation than Denver, if that gives any perspective. It gets pretty damn cold. I’ve been looking into different options for how to deal with waste, and would love some suggestions! A big consideration, is the fact that I’m frequently gone, so anything that requires too much maintenance is out the window. I’m also looking for low cost, and preferably simple.

Initially I was leaning towards something along the lines of Geoff Lawtons wheelie bin composting system. I have some concerns about it’s ability to kill pathogens, the time it would take to compost (considering the cold), and the smell… am I missing something?

Someone later suggested I look into the omick barrel design. On the website, it states that it’s only suited for warm climates. Now I’m concerned that any form of cold composting won’t adequately eliminate pathogens in my climate.

The problem I see with hot composting…If I understand right, is that it likely requires watering in my climate. On top of the dry, the wind is fierce and relentless.

I’m open to options outside of composting, but that would be the preferred method. Thanks!

John C Daley

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What are you actually trying to deal with?
- Food
- septic waste
You have 3 other issues to deal with
- absence
- dry climate
- wind that is fierce and relentless.
Can you alter any of those last factors?

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Anne Miller

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Josh said, " I was leaning towards something along the lines of Geoff Lawtons wheelie bin composting system. I have some concerns about it’s ability to kill pathogens, the time it would take to compost (considering the cold), and the smell… am I missing something?

This sounds like your best option to me.

If I were in this situation I would have 2 wheelie bins with lids.

I would let one sit to compost inside the wheelie bin when I leave the property.

The next time I am back at the property I would use the other wheelie bin.

Upon my next visit, I would bring sawdust to cover the contents of the first wheelie bin and use that one.

I would continue this repeat action with each visit.

I am not sure how this experiment would work since I have not done this.

And this might be dependent on how large a wheelie bin I would use.

Seems like 5-gallon ones would let me use several to rotate.

This would be similar to using the "trash can method" of composting.

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Ted Abbey

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posted 1 year ago

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josh ober wrote:

I’m open to options outside of composting, but that would be the preferred method. Thanks!

Build a portable outhouse.. light enough to move, but heavy enough not to blow away. Apply dirt, ash, sawdust, peat moss, etc. between uses. Add worms and cap it with soil when it’s full. Move outhouse to a new location. Mark each spot for a future tree planting. Win-win situation without all the gadgets or systems.

josh ober

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John C Daley wrote:What are you actually trying to deal with?
- Food
- septic waste
You have 3 other issues to deal with
- absence
- dry climate
- wind that is fierce and relentless.
Can you alter any of those last factors?

I suppose the priority is septic waste. Absence is unlikely to change. I’m sure there’s solutions to the other two.

josh ober

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posted 1 year ago

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Anne Miller wrote: If I were in this situation I would have 2 wheelie bins with lids.

I’d definitely prefer this. Main concern is pathogens. Has is been verified that anaerobic composting will take care of pathogens? Most things I’ve read, outside of someone pitching a toilet idea, say that it won’t.

Does it not smell?

Considering the cold, wouldn’t it take a super long time to compost? The average low is below freezing 7 months of the year. Worried that I’ll have a mountain of bins.

Glenn Herbert

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Here is an old thread on the subject of alternate waste treatment: Seeking moldering toilet information/inspiration
I added a current set of plans from the US Forest Service to that thread.

They have been used on the Appalachian Trail for many years now. You would probably want to modify the design slightly for your dry windy conditions by enclosing the moldering bin more than is usual in forested areas.

Glenn Herbert

Rocket Scientist

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Moldering privies use natural microbes and worms etc. to consume pathogens leaving levels comparable to natural soil, rather than simply destroying them with heat.

Ben Skiba

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I live in the high desert as well. elevation 6,000 feet. we personally just put our humanure between 4 pallets with a metal mesh on top.The fresh humanure is covered each time with a layer of dirt.One of our older piles in two years there is nothing left but black dirt.Traditionally they just build an outhouse here as above mentioned.Just make sure your pile is a nice distance away from your house.The outhouse same thing.Read the humanure handback by joseph jenkins.Don't over think it to much.It's a rather simple solution.Animal manure is composted.We our animals our poop will compost as well even in a dry climate.make sure it is covered with dirt.

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josh ober

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Ben Skiba wrote:I live in the high desert as well. elevation 6,000 feet. we personally just put our humanure between 4 pallets with a metal mesh on top.

Have you had to water it?

Ben Skiba

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No i haven't had to water it.

josh ober

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Ben Skiba wrote:No i haven't had to water it.

great. Thanks!

Ben Skiba

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I should elaborate or it will haunt my conscious.We do occasionally put in green matter/chamisa/wasted hay from sheep horses/ and we do turn the pile occasionally .Life is work especially off grid but you probley already know that.Either way your gonna have to put in some work.Digging an outhouse hole is work.You can use a auger if your soils not to rocky.The little to no maintenance route is definitely an outhouse you just move the outhouse when it fills up and plant a tree or bush as Ted had mentioned with ash ,worms ,sawdust etc.The humanure compost piles really not that much work either.Occasionally you have to mess with it.The outhouse hole you don't.That's my 2 cent hope it helps you.Check out the humanure handbook it's worth a look there's even a free online copy from the author to read.Humanure Handbook Scroll down and click each individual table of content lets you read whole book.

John C Daley

pollinator

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Location: Bendigo , Australia

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Is this the additional product you throw on?
chamisa - an evergreen saltbush (Atriplex canescens) having brittle stems, yellow flowers, and winged seeds : four-wing saltbush.
: a rabbitbrush (Ericameria nauseosa) having flexible hairy stems and yellow flowers
: rubber rabbitbrush.

Robert Ray

gardener

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Could you use a "Groasis" box above a sunken barrel? It's ability to collect a little water might help the composting part? Low to the ground out of the wind. Worms could be added if it had the aded water source and after a time a location of fertile ground for a tree.

Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.

Ben Skiba

pioneer

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Location: Herding farming god of travel and fast horses.Holy fool.

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John C Daley wrote:Is this the additional product you throw on?
chamisa - an evergreen saltbush (Atriplex canescens) having brittle stems, yellow flowers, and winged seeds : four-wing saltbush.
: a rabbitbrush (Ericameria nauseosa) having flexible hairy stems and yellow flowers
: rubber rabbitbrush.

Yessir one and the same.I guess the biggest thing here is trying something.No matter what you decide you've got to give it a try.It may be successful it may not be but that's what permaculture /lifes all about.the coolest thing about permies is that there's alot of smart people on here who our supportive.Best of luck josh.

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