Should we get a cat?

Carla Burke wrote:Heather's post reminds me of other things, too - like absolutely the poop. They're carnivores, almost exclusively, which introduces some very nasty bacteria into your garden. Barn cats have a very different manure than house cats, based on their diets. And the bacteria that she speaks of harming your chickens is no laughing matter, especially if you've anyone around wanting to snuggle or play with them. I won't say 'they're toxic', but a tiny barn cat's small scratch on my youngest daughter's hand resulted in my learning that Ted Nugent's song, 'Cat Scratch Fever' is a real thing, and my healthy daughter became very sick. With all the stuff they walk in, and the vermin they pounce, catch, and kill, the bacteria that builds under their claws can be lethal to anyone very young, very elderly, or with a compromised immune system, even just being sweet and playful. They may be great cats, with great personalities - but, buyer beware.

Since our chickens are fenced in the front yard and the cat mostly was hanging around the back yard, I decided to bring him up to the coop to introduce him to the flock and show him the compost pile and all the hunting opportunities. He immediately decided that the chickens dust bath and the area under the roost where they poop is his favorite spot to poop. Now he poops up there regularly, maybe once a day. So now I’m wondering if I need to treat my chicken poop differently since it has a little cat poop mixed in…

As for the scratches, yes they do seem to linger a bit longer and get more red than a “normal” a ratchet but I guess that’s pretty understandable.

Trace Oswald wrote:If you are not planning on providing shelter in our climate, no, you should not get a cat.

Ive asked a few people but my gut tells me to ask a few more…

Is there a certain point where its just too cold for him outside and we should consider bringing him inside, or at least into the basement?

He has an insulated 2 cubic foot cat house stuffed with a pillow and a bunch of hay and that is located inside of a small uninsulated shed. So no heat but plenty of shelter.

Its 4 degrees right now and we usually dip into the -20 to -30 range at least a bit throughout winter. Do i need to stop worrying or is there a certain temperature that is just too cold to reasonably expect him to be ok outside?

Yes, it would be wise to treat the poop a bit differently. Toxoplasmosis is a real thing. But, to be famous, I'm not sure if the risk is higher, lower, or the same, between indoor and outdoor cats. As far as warmth in the winter, it's never a bad idea to provide additional shelter - but, can be life threatening, not to. At the same time, don't be terribly surprised if it seems to not be used. He may or may not leave evidence of his presence in or around it, and may only use it, when the chickens won't let him huddle with them - and depending on your roost, he may not be able to. I'm pretty sure a cat could be comfortable on ours, but it's 3 boards spaced fairly close together. On a single-board roost, that's much less likely to work. Since cats typically like to get as high up as possible, something as simple as a cat-sized board near the roost - if the birds and cat are content that close - will likely suffice.

Carla Burke wrote:Yes, it would be wise to treat the poop a bit differently. Toxoplasmosis is a real thing. But, to be famous, I'm not sure if the risk is higher, lower, or the same, between indoor and outdoor cats. As far as warmth in the winter, it's never a bad idea to provide additional shelter - but, can be life threatening, not to. At the same time, don't be terribly surprised if it seems to not be used. He may or may not leave evidence of his presence in or around it, and may only use it, when the chickens won't let him huddle with them - and depending on your roost, he may not be able to. I'm pretty sure a cat could be comfortable on ours, but it's 3 boards spaced fairly close together. On a single-board roost, that's much less likely to work. Since cats typically like to get as high up as possible, something as simple as a cat-sized board near the roost - if the birds and cat are content that close - will likely suffice.

I was kind of thinking he might try to sleep with the chickens to stay warm since they actually throw enough heat to keep the coop a few degrees warmer than air temperature, even though it isn’t insulated. But the coop door closes after dark and doesn’t open until daybreak and I dont think he’s interested in being stuck in one place that long. He does go in there occasionally during the day time though. I think i would need to physically put him in there every evening for him to be able to sleep with the chickens and I trust his judgment better than my own as far as whether or not he needs to be in there at night.

Brody Ekberg wrote:I was kind of thinking he might try to sleep with the chickens to stay warm since they actually throw enough heat to keep the coop a few degrees warmer than air temperature, even though it isn’t insulated. But the coop door closes after dark and doesn’t open until daybreak and I dont think he’s interested in being stuck in one place that long. He does go in there occasionally during the day time though. I think i would need to physically put him in there every evening for him to be able to sleep with the chickens and I trust his judgment better than my own as far as whether or not he needs to be in there at night.

I agree. Our automatic coop door stopped working a year or more ago, and I wasn't even thinking about the possibility of him being unhappily trapped in there. All our free-range critters usually go to the goat barn, for warmth and shelter if the laying chickens are locked in. So, if you've a similar setup, I'm sure he'll find a cozy spot. Another option might be a cat door in the chicken coop - but how that would work (without letting predators in or chickens out) would be dependent on the sizes of your birds, the cat, the door location & type...

Our cats are fine down to 0 or so, but we have multiple cats and they huddle together inside insulated boxes.  Since you have a well insulated box in a shed, if you can put a heating pad in the box with it, your cat will be fine even at -20.  If you don't have a way to do that, I would bring the cat in in below 0 weather.  Cats are pretty cold hardy, but at some point, I think it's cruel to leave them out and I've seen plenty of cats in this area with their ears frost-bitten down to nubs.  I think that has to be pretty darned painful.

The mother of our current cats was a stray that I found living in the chicken coop when it was a tiny kitten.  Some of the chickens huddled together on top of the nesting boxes and the cat would curl up right in the middle of them and she was fine in really cold weather.  She was so small she could get in and out through gaps in the roof, so she could let herself in and out.  I don't know how that would work in a well built coop like my current one.

Carla Burke wrote:Another option might be a cat door in the chicken coop - but how that would work (without letting predators in or chickens out) would be dependent on the sizes of your birds, the cat, the door location & type...

I cant imagine any type of cat door that wouldn’t also let in predators. A weasel can get through a 1” hole. The only way I can imagine the cat sleeping with the chickens is if I either just put him in there every night and make him deal with it or try to train him to go in before the door closes. I could probably do that with food. Im sure keeping him locked in a coop at night would keep him safer. But it would also cut down on his hunting. Plus, the more time he spends inside the coop the more he poops in there which is another thing I’m trying to decide whether or not is a problem.

Trace Oswald wrote:Our cats are fine down to 0 or so, but we have multiple cats and they huddle together inside insulated boxes.  Since you have a well insulated box in a shed, if you can put a heating pad in the box with it, your cat will be fine even at -20.  If you don't have a way to do that, I would bring the cat in in below 0 weather.  Cats are pretty cold hardy, but at some point, I think it's cruel to leave them out and I've seen plenty of cats in this area with their ears frost-bitten down to nubs.  I think that has to be pretty darned painful.

The mother of our current cats was a stray that I found living in the chicken coop when it was a tiny kitten.  Some of the chickens huddled together on top of the nesting boxes and the cat would curl up right in the middle of them and she was fine in really cold weather.  She was so small she could get in and out through gaps in the roof, so she could let herself in and out.  I don't know how that would work in a well built coop like my current one.

Maybe ill look into radiant heaters. I considered getting one for chick raising, although that would be worst case scenario as I’d much rather a hen do it for us. I wonder if any would be safe to use inside of his house in contact with hay.

And yes, frostbite is definitely something I want to avoid. The first two winters we had chickens the roosters ended up getting frost bitten combs and wattles and I felt absolutely terrible!

So, things are going well with Pepper our barn cat, but I do have a couple concerns I’d like some opinions on:

1. He’s starting to climb trees a bit just in time for the robbins to arrive back in the area to start building nests. We have a couple crabapple trees that have at least 1 nest each every single year, and often have other birds nesting in them as well. What can I do to keep the cat out of the trees without damaging the trees in the process? Maybe some sort of a guard on the bottom 4’ of the tree trunk or something similar?

2. How concerned should I be about ingesting cat pee/poop? I know they can carry toxoplasmosis but dont know how frequently or how big of a deal that is for the average healthy person. He’s already scratched me many times while playing, so if it can be spread that way then I’ve probably already either gotten immune or am carrying it myself. But my main concern is him pooping and peeing around the gardens. I almost never wash the foods I pick from the gardens unless they are visibly dirty when I pick them. Now I’m wondering if I need to get in the habit of washing everything. Also wondering if washing is even good enough to remove things from stuff like greens, strawberries and other low-growing foods. And I dont see how keeping him out of the gardens is realistic since he can climb.

Any advice or suggestions?

For your first question, my suggestion would be to use chicken wire similar to a cone or funnel about six feet up the tree.

That way the cat cannot crawl over the chicken wire or jump past chicken wire.

I don't have any suggestions for the 2nd question.

I've never found a way to keep cats out of gardens or trees, without enclosing them, completely. Yes, it would probably be wise to wash everything.

Anne Miller wrote:For your first question, my suggestion would be to use chicken wire similar to a cone or funnel about six feet up the tree.

That way the cat cannot crawl over the chicken wire or jump past chicken wire.

I don't have any suggestions for the 2nd question.

So wrap the tree in chicken wire with the bottom tight to the tree and the top spread enough to make a cone shape? Seems like that could work

Carla Burke wrote:I've never found a way to keep cats out of gardens or trees, without enclosing them, completely. Yes, it would probably be wise to wash everything.

That bums me out! I love picking a strawberry and eating it right off the vine. I guess thats a sacrifice to make when owning an outdoor cat. I wonder how much good a simple wash in cold water really does, like it it would remove harmful bacteria that easily.

I found these on Pinterest:


source


source


source


source

Anne Miller wrote:I found these on Pinterest:

Thanks! I should be able to get creative with scrap chicken wire and make something work. This also gives me ideas to keep squirrels out of our hazelnut trees when they get around to fruiting. Im thinking chicken wire would be better for the trees since it wouldn’t trap heat and humidity in like metal or plastic would.

Unfortunately, i found Pepper totally destroyed on the highway yesterday morning. We’re super bummed. He was such a great cat and we really couldn’t have asked for a better introduction to cat ownership than him. He lived a great life, it was just short. And based off of what I saw on the road, I dont think he suffered for a second.

Bad timing considering the yard is finally free from snow and the vole trails are visible. And its as bad as I feared, if not worse. Basically anywhere that I’ve mulched (vegetable garden, trees, hedge, berry patches, perennials/herbs) is like a maze with vole trails. My biggest fear was them girdling our young trees but so far that doesn’t appear to be the case. Hopefully they didnt eat any roots though. Time will tell. One thing’s for sure though: a cat or two would be very helpful right now!

Ironically, the family we got Pepper from just had 5 more kittens a couple weeks ago. Same mother and father too! As of now, none are spoken for so we’re planning on adopting 1-2 of them in June. Hoping that since they will have the same genes and the same environment for the first couple months of life that they will be equally enjoyable as he was (friendly, playful, loving, gentle, and a good hunter).

Now I just hope that the voles dont mess with our gardens as we come into seed starting and planting everything. I’ll probably have to take precautions with the potatoes right away since they ate 1/3 of them on me last year. They didnt seem to eat much else though, at least not that I could see from above the ground. They sure do love tunneling through the hugels and mulch though. Hopefully plans hold up and by mid summer we will have a mouser or two helping us out!

So sad about Pepper.

Best wishes for the new kitten in June.

Aw, Brody. I'm so sorry. 💔

Update on our cat situation:

We adopted a couple sister kittens early June. They were from a fresh litter from the same parents as the last 2. Got them acclimated to our yard and got them spayed about a month ago. Everything was going great. They hunted well, played together well, got along with the dog and the neighbor and any visitors. And then the pinecones started to ripen…

We live on a busy state highway and have red pines in our yard, but also on the other side of the highway there’s a mix of pines. And I think between the cats and our dog, all of the birds and squirrels prefer the pines across the highway because they are full of critters eating pine nuts. The trees in our yard dont have much action but the cats just cant ignore all the hunting opportunities across the road. Multiple times I had to run and stop them from crossing, a couple times they made it across and I had to go get them, once a truck slowed down to let one cross and earlier this week, one died out there.

So now we’re down to 1 again. The last cat was free roaming 24/7 and got hit on the highway at night so we decided to lock our new ones up at night. That worked well until these pinecones ripened. I think the flocks of small birds will probably migrate soon and the squirrels will spread out once the nuts are mostly fallen, but for now, we’re in a weird situation with the surviving cat. We wont let her roam unsupervised at all now because she just cant stay away from the road. So shes either locked in a shed or the garage all day unless one of us can be supervising her.

I ordered an invisible fence that should be here next week. I really hope that it works for her. She hates wearing collars, but if she can adjust, and is responsive to the training and boundaries then i think this will be the best solution. We also can use it with our dog so that is a bonus. I really dont want a house cat or to contain her to a cage. But doing nothing would probably result in a quick death on the highway.

Invisible fences have very mixed reviews. People have very different opinions about them. And their effectiveness on anything, especially cats is highly variable. But I’m hopeful!

Anyone out there have experience with invisible fences for cats? Or do any of you live on a busy highway and have free roaming cats? Our neighbor said he had a cat for 19 years and it never crossed the road. It slept in his house but was outside all day every day…

Brody: I used to live on a busy road, and lost too many young cats to it, until me and my dad came  up with a solution. Negative imprinting. I'd hold a kitten on the ground near the road, dad would bring his diesel pickup truck by, and as he got near us, he'd drop it into neutral and REV THE ENGINE! The kitten would be screaming and trying to run away, I'd hold it till it was utterly hysterical, then let it go, it would run away from the road back to the house.

We did this to each kitten, and I lost no more cats to that road, They were terrified of it. They had NO good mental images of the road. Your cats have a good mental image "stuff to hunt over there" and that's the problem.

I'd say do something similar to yours, AND (most importantly!!) figure out how to attract more interesting things to your side of the road. And imprint new cats at an early age to stop the pattern of road crossing before they get a good image of what's over there.

I'm a cat person, it HATE when cats get hit....  :(

Pearl Sutton wrote:Brody: I used to live on a busy road, and lost too many young cats to it, until me and my dad came  up with a solution. Negative imprinting. I'd hold a kitten on the ground near the road, dad would bring his diesel pickup truck by, and as he got near us, he'd drop it into neutral and REV THE ENGINE! The kitten would be screaming and trying to run away, I'd hold it till it was utterly hysterical, then let it go, it would run away from the road back to the house.

We did this to each kitten, and I lost no more cats to that road, They were terrified of it. They had NO good mental images of the road. Your cats have a good mental image "stuff to hunt over there" and that's the problem.

I'd say do something similar to yours, AND (most importantly!!) figure out how to attract more interesting things to your side of the road. And imprint new cats at an early age to stop the pattern of road crossing before they get a good image of what's over there.

I'm a cat person, it HATE when cats get hit....  :(

I dont think I’ve heard of negative imprinting before but thats a really interesting idea! Too bad we drive Subarus😆 i don’t think they would be scary enough. But the surviving cat made it about 10’ away from the shoulder of the road today and a big truck went by and she got scared and ran back to me. I hope that putting the in ground fence out there will help a lot.

Before cats, i used to keep a bird feeder filled in the back yard. But once we got cats I decided feeding the birds would almost be like a cat bait pile. And I’d prefer they filled up on rodents not birds, so I quit feeding them. Well, I recently started again and my thought were that if they’re going to chase birds Id rather it be in our back yard than across the highway. And it helped keep them occupied for a few days but wasn’t good enough.