Eric Hanson

Tommy,

The block heater for my tractor (which is obviously diesel) is located in the coolant tank.  I can't imagine it would possibly catch anything on fire.  Of course I could be mistaken.  And I have had to warm up an engine using techniques that looked somewhat like you posted in your picture, though not as extreme.



Eric

Tommy, the situation you describe  is the exact set of circumstances that come to mind when I think about how challenging it would be to power a block heater with a battery while off grid.

Though I do have to ask about this....While I think that a battery might not be the best option for the block heater unless it was huge, would a little inverter (or regular) generator work?  I was thinking a out the inverter generator just because of how efficiently they sip the gas.  And a single gallon of gas is going to hold a lot more energy than a similar sized battery?  Granted, the setup you have there is going to heat not only the engine block, but also pretty much everything under the hood.



Nice picture by the way.



Eric

I love all this talk about a block heater.  I installed one on my tractor due to some difficult cold starts.  The addition of the block heater makes the engine think that it is a warm, spring day everyday.

However, I am a little cautious about the the idea of powering the block heater with a battery.  This all boils down to the power consumption of the block heater itself.  I honestly don't know what the power consumption is of my tractor, but if anyone wants to try, it is a JD2038R with a 37HP engine.  I did find some block heaters (it was for a diesel Ford F-350) and it consumed over a kilowatt!  Also, the details on that specific block heater stated that the truck should be plugged in for several hours for the block heater to thoroughly warm up.  If I guess at 1.2Kw for 4 hours, then I get a whopping 4.8 KwH.  My battery box I am working on at home (slowly I might add) is a 12v, 100 AH, yielding a 1.2 KwH of total capacity or 1/4 of what was suggested for that truck!  Now I know that that specific engine is huge compared to mine and being plugged in for an hour might warm the engine enough.  But either way, I would want to find the specific numbers on the wattage of the engine block heater and from there get an idea of the size of a battery or battery system you would need.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, I just want to get the specifics right before I try something like this,


Good luck and please tell me what you think!!


Eric

Hi Jane, Welcome to Permies!!

AHH, what a wonderful dream!  I am slightly envious as you are at the start of an exciting journey.  But as for solar, I would probably need a bit more to go from.  Specifically, I need to know how many watts you would use in a day and that can be a difficult number to answer.  The good news is that you are not using electricity for heating, which I personally think is the worst use for solar-electric (why generate electrons just to turn them into heat when there are SOOOOO many other ways to create heat).  But maybe a reasonable list of questions to ask would look like the following:

Are you going to use electricity for any of the following things:

Laundry (washing)

Laundry (drying)

Hot water

Air conditioning?

Computer use

Other electronics

Lighting needs

Medical devices

Power tools, especially cordless (and thus the need for charging)

Kitchen devices
*Microwave (huge demand over short time!)
*Blender
*Toaster/air fryer (again, looks like a microwave!)

Fridge

Outside Fridge/Freezer

Anything else


I suspect that at a bare-bones system, you could run all of these things from a small, 2200 watt portable generator (I know, not solar, but it gives us some numbers).  This would leave almost no room for growth and you might have to load-shift which means you would have to watch which devices were being used at the same time (no microwave and air fryer!).

I would think that a more realistic number would be something like 4-5KW.  This is not a big deal to get either on a roof or on a stand nearby.


But then we get into the problematic issues.


Realistically, on a perfect day, you have about 5 peak hours from which to generate electricity.  You can still generate from the other times, but it will drop off rapidly.  This brings us to the question of whether or not you want to store electricity off grid or be a grid-tie system.  They each have their ups and downs.

Off Grid

This is the ultimate way to be really independent, but you will have to buy the batteries and they are not cheap, especially when you calculate just how much electricity you want to store.  I know it seems obvious, but solar panels are useless at night and are minimal at best in inclement weather.  Honestly, you have to decide just how much you want, but a common figure to work with is 3 days.  Consider what 3 days worth of electricity looks like in batteries (and I suggest LiFePo4 batteries for this option).  If we go with a 4Kw system that generates 20 Kw-H (Kilowatt Hours) during those 5 peak hours then you would want 60 Kw-H worth of batteries.  If you store electricity in a 12v 100 ah battery (a common size and voltage), then you are looking at 1.2 Kw-H per battery.  At a bare minimum, you would want 17 of those batteries.  I took a quick look, a a mid-range battery meeting those specs looks like this one here
https://www.eco-worthy.com/products/lifepo4-12v-100ah-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery?srsltid=AfmBOopCxnjvVOju3GupEq6zhxr7oXzAW5hfgn-tUNWBqi_fbzWYJe6WrJw

It costs $190 at the time of writing, down from $280.  That's $3230 for the batteries.  Realistically, these would probably need to be purchased in pairs so bumps the price to 3420.

Then we have to consider the charger (go with MPPT!) and some extra components.  Expect up to about $500.


So from there you might think about going grid-tie and I completely understand.  But when you do, you are going to pay a monthly hookup fee (probably $20).  There is also some specialized components that are designed to prevent backflow down the line in an emergency.  The issue is that if there is a power outage in the area and you are producing electricity, any electrical worker could get a nasty to fatal shock even if he thinks that the power is off (that is, as coming from the power plant).  But since you are generating electricity from your house and feeding backwards, a line could be live even when it should be dead.  This is a real concern and it adds a non-trivial amount to the cost.  Also, the power company may or may not buy electricity from you and pay you for the same electricity for the same price!

And it only gets more complicated.

Please don't look at this as me being anti-solar.  I am not. But if you do go solar, go in with eyes wide open.


But short version, if I were you and just guessing at this point, I would go with a 3kw-4kw system, but this will vary drastically on your location and usage.


I have no idea if this helped or not, but maybe it gives a starting point.


Let me know what you think!!!




Eric

I know I get a bit excited to see snow—I feel like a kid again.  This last week has been unusual for the area in that not only did we get a respectable amount of snow, but it has stayed a week, with temperatures never getting above freezing and typically not getting much higher than about 15 degrees.  Consequently, the snow layer has stayed around and the area has done a halfway decent job of looking like the northern country that I miss.  I decided to add some pictures.


Eric

The basic concept of determinism says “No” as everything that happens, happens because something caused it to happen.

Our understanding is limited so that the appearance of random events seems very real.


But if we get to the quantum world, then we have some hard limits on knowledge and thus the majority of specific random events are evidently random.  But even there, those random events take place in a broader framework that has definable boundaries.



Eric

Jay,

The area does have plow trucks, but perhaps not enough, and while the major roads get cleared early, some of the winding back-roads get poorly cleared if at all.

As far as my neighbors go, since I am out and doing this, I may as well help out my neighbors.  Like I stated earlier, the blade I use works best on a long run.  So as far as I am concerned, helping my neighbors is just an easy extension of clearing my own driveway.

And to touch on something else you said, at times I have thought that maybe a better way to clear these back roads is to contract out sections of roads out to people who already own trucks w/plows or tractors with snow removal equipment.  Perhaps they would be paid and expected to keep clean a section of road near their homes.  But in the meantime, I basically have to do this anyway to get my wife to the main road.  I have sometimes wondered if I was out clearing snow and for some reason aw enforcement were to show up.  I have not been certified in any way and I would hope that I would not be fined for helping people out of the snow.  But I have heard of people running exactly into this problem.



Eric

I have been busy playing in the snow—which means cleaning roads and driveways.

Naturally the first driveway I clear is my own.  Recently I installed a block heater on my tractor and I have it plugged in so starting was simple despite temperatures that never got higher than 10 degrees.  Whenever I clear my driveway (400’), I use a 3 pt grader/scrape blade with an offset.  This allows me the ability to really wing the snow off the side of the road.  It’s a great snow removal tool, but it works best on a long run because wherever you stop, there is a pile of snow gathered by the blade but waiting to be flung out.  This means that once I start, I go as long as I can,

The road on my neighborhood is a .6 mile long dead end.  I sit near the end near the intersection, but since the blade works so well on long distances, I just clear the whole road, going both down and up.  I also clear a couple of driveways on the downside, including my retired mechanic neighbor who has quite a large asphalt driveway, but that makes it easy.   And we do these things for each other anyway.

I also clear a little bit of the intersecting road, including two neighbors who sit side by side.  One neighbor is a married pair of pastors with five children—two biological and three adopted.  It just seems neighborly to help them out since I am doing this anyway.

All-in-all we had 9 inches and the temperature has remained below freezing all week.  It actually looks like a winter outside!!  And we got a snow day!!  Or two.  Or three.  Nah,  we got a whole snow week!!  Growing up, 9 inches would absolutely never get us out for more than two days.  But the area is just not well equipped or experienced at clearing snow so these events are something of a minor natural disaster.  Ah well, I never turn down a snow day!!


Eric

Hi Kayla, welcome to Permies.

16 acres sounds wonderful.  What an adventure you have ahead.  I look forward to hearing about your projects on your new property.  Doe you have any besides a garden?



Eric

John, a thought…

I like the dark colored garbage can in the sun as well as the not-quite-frozen garage.  Maybe you could add some heat to this system.

My thought was that you could fill up a few 5-gallon buckets w/lids with scalding hot water.  Then place those buckets by the garage can.  Then insulate w/a series of blankets or other form of insulation so the heat does not escape outside but only to the garage can.  

I have found that a 5-gallon bucket of hot water can hold a lot of heat even in very cold conditions, especially if properly insulated.

Eric