vertical turbine pole / tower

hello

im looking all over the internet to find the dimmentions required for a mast/pole/tower to fit my vertical axis turbine.

do anyone here know anything on this?

and please yes i know im probably going to die when this is crashing down on the ground due to not using local ground condition parametres / local engineer to calculate pole size and fundament size, the nabers cat is probably going to die too so please do NOT telll me!!!


so im here to talk to other peoples that have some experience and can share some drawings calculations and dimmentions.


im looking to make a stand alone stepped tubular pole about 12 meter high.

my turbine is a 3kw turbine named EOLO 3000
from here: https://www.makemu.it/linea-prodotti/eolo/?lang=en
it have 6 blades







so my qestion are:
1. could anyone help to calculate the lateral load this turbine put on the pole?
2. could anyone help calculate the pipe diameter and wall thicknes required?
   i found this for a light post and it can oviesly not handle the lateral load but it might be helpful







thanks

Hi Martin, welcome to permies!

Have you tried contacting the manufacturer of the wind turbine for recommended guidelines?

James Freyr wrote:Hi Martin, welcome to permies!

Have you tried contacting the manufacturer of the wind turbine for recommended guidelines?

yes but they do not answer. its also no information on this online or on their web page, not eaven the manual is avalible for download.

so my conclusion is that this company just want to sell and no usersupport afterwortes

Man, that sure is inconvenient. Here's my suggestion: a pole that can support the weight of the wind turbine, or vertical loads, and then attach guide wires to keep it upright and prevent it from listing or the even falling over in strong winds, the lateral loads, like in the picture below.

James Freyr wrote:Man, that sure is inconvenient. Here's my suggestion: a pole that can support the weight of the wind turbine, or vertical loads, and then attach guide wires to keep it upright and prevent it from listing or the even falling over in strong winds, the lateral loads, like in the picture below.

yes i know its the safest option but space is the issue, its going to require to large area to setup, and the support wires is in my way :P

While there are quite a few differences between vertical and horizontal wind turbine.
Given that the effective diameter of your wind turbine is 1.95m (1.3m without the base included).
I would just use the same pole that I would use for a 2m diameter 'regular' wind turbine.

If you want to make sure that you have an even better match get pole/tower that you would use for a 'regular' 3kw wind turbine.

The company does seem to offer a pole system.  $277 for every 5.2m. So you will probably need 3X.
$831 for 15.6m and $554 for 10.2m

https://www.makemu.it/prodotto/m40-modular-pole-system/?lang=en

S Bengi wrote:The company does seem to offer a pole system.  $277 for every 5.2m. So you will probably need 3X.
$831 for 15.6m and $554 for 10.2m

https://www.makemu.it/prodotto/m40-modular-pole-system/?lang=en

it still have the support wires, but dimmentions are there.

i still prefer to get the dimmentiones for pipe that can fully support the turbine by it self

Martin Rusten wrote:

i still prefer to get the dimmentiones for pipe that can fully support the turbine by it self

I think this may prove to be extremely challenging. I'm no engineer, but I ran a quick leverage force/load calculator I found on the internets, which I input the variables and made basically a lever with the fulcrum right at one end, which is essentially a vertical pole in the ground. If 10lbs of lateral force is pushed on the top of a pole 60 feet tall, about 2000lbs of lateral force needs to be resisted at the base where it's in the ground. I hope this gives a general idea of the forces involved with tall poles, and why when we see them, they always seem to be supported with guide wires. I can imagine a gentle breezy day pushing 10lbs on the wind turbine, but I think really windy days that have 50mph wind gusts may exert incredible forces at the base of the pole that need to be accounted for.

James Freyr wrote:

Martin Rusten wrote:

i still prefer to get the dimmentiones for pipe that can fully support the turbine by it self

I think this may prove to be extremely challenging. I'm no engineer, but I ran a quick leverage force/load calculator I found on the internets, which I input the variables and made basically a lever with the fulcrum right at one end, which is essentially a vertical pole in the ground. If 10lbs of lateral force is pushed on the top of a pole 60 feet tall, about 2000lbs of lateral force needs to be resisted at the base where it's in the ground. I hope this gives a general idea of the forces involved with tall poles, and why when we see them, they always seem to be supported with guide wires. I can imagine a gentle breezy day pushing 10lbs on the wind turbine, but I think really windy days that have 50mph wind gusts may exert incredible forces at the base of the pole that need to be accounted for.

yes i expect about 30 cm diameter at the bottom of the tower and 5 - 8 mm pipe thicknes with 2cm flanges with 20mm bolts

but its a bit of risky to eyeball this hehe thats why i try to get some answers from someone that know calculations or someone that have similar tower in his yard that could make measurements

I typed this in and came back with scads of promising results.

"wind generator tower loading"
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ir.uiowa.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D2427%26context%3Detd&ved=2ahUKEwihmfX58tXgAhUs4YMKHa6yCaYQFjAFegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw3_r2bQ8yXRJ_Gbt6vevLMB

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.homepower.com/articles/wind-power/design-installation/ask-experts-wind-force&ved=2ahUKEwihmfX58tXgAhUs4YMKHa6yCaYQFjADegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw01Cs8QHbpkghfWlhVgcWU3

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.simpack.com/fileadmin/simpack/doc/newsletter/2014/March_2014/Spreads/SN-1-Mar-2014_SIMPACK_Wind-Turbines_Load-Calculation_HRes_spreads.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwihmfX58tXgAhUs4YMKHa6yCaYQFjABegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw29z_Q4ULz2gmrq3US_vxy9

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy05osti/37112.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwihmfX58tXgAhUs4YMKHa6yCaYQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3ZCLvzNUkhhTxG9Hc-mKHi

James Freyr wrote:

Martin Rusten wrote:

i still prefer to get the dimmentiones for pipe that can fully support the turbine by it self

I think this may prove to be extremely challenging. I'm no engineer, but I ran a quick leverage force/load calculator I found on the internets, which I input the variables and made basically a lever with the fulcrum right at one end, which is essentially a vertical pole in the ground. If 10lbs of lateral force is pushed on the top of a pole 60 feet tall, about 2000lbs of lateral force needs to be resisted at the base where it's in the ground. I hope this gives a general idea of the forces involved with tall poles, and why when we see them, they always seem to be supported with guide wires. I can imagine a gentle breezy day pushing 10lbs on the wind turbine, but I think really windy days that have 50mph wind gusts may exert incredible forces at the base of the pole that need to be accounted for.

Yes, pretty complicated calculation. The tower needs to be figured in and ots just a shame there is no lateral force in lbs for the generator at max design windspeed, as it would greatly reduce the error involved in rig-gineering.

A simple online calculator would then be safe to use in accounting for the surface area of the tower.

Is ice buildup a factor in your area, all kinds of details.

I like to think of myself as a good engineer......... with extremely narrow bandwidth!

frank li wrote:I typed this in and came back with scads of promising results.

"wind generator tower loading"
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ir.uiowa.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D2427%26context%3Detd&ved=2ahUKEwihmfX58tXgAhUs4YMKHa6yCaYQFjAFegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw3_r2bQ8yXRJ_Gbt6vevLMB

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.homepower.com/articles/wind-power/design-installation/ask-experts-wind-force&ved=2ahUKEwihmfX58tXgAhUs4YMKHa6yCaYQFjADegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw01Cs8QHbpkghfWlhVgcWU3

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.simpack.com/fileadmin/simpack/doc/newsletter/2014/March_2014/Spreads/SN-1-Mar-2014_SIMPACK_Wind-Turbines_Load-Calculation_HRes_spreads.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwihmfX58tXgAhUs4YMKHa6yCaYQFjABegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw29z_Q4ULz2gmrq3US_vxy9

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy05osti/37112.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwihmfX58tXgAhUs4YMKHa6yCaYQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3ZCLvzNUkhhTxG9Hc-mKHi

thanks for werry good reply

do you have a formula for wind turbine force calculation and i can make a excel spreadsheet for it and bring it online.

i have seen some calculations about area of wings and particles hitting the wings that wil make the force applied to the tower, anyway did not find any good formulas for it