Win a copy of Permaculture Design Companion this week in the Permaculture Design forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • Anne Miller
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Mike Jay Haasl
  • Burra Maluca
garden masters:
  • James Freyr
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Steve Thorn
  • Greg Martin
gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • Dave Burton
  • Pearl Sutton

4' culvert cooling tubes

 
Posts: 7
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Trying to figure out how to build an earthship to code, and thinking about using 4' culverts as "window wells"/cooling tubes for the bedrooms. The foundation will be concrete with a sufficient mass of earth insulated behind it as tires simply could not be used. The culverts would be run horizontal for about 20 feet, and burried well below the frost line. Airflow could then be controlled by simply adjusting the window opening on the house end of the tube. Any feedback on this idea?
 
Posts: 800
Location: Bendigo , Australia
32
dog homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Some questions?;
whats the issue with tyres?
What would stop big critters living in the tubes?
Would gravel foundations work better than concrete?
Have any diagrams or pictures please?
 
Samuel Weight
Posts: 7
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
whats the issue with tyres?
No way I can get a permit to build with tires in Utah (thinking of leaving).

What would stop big critters living in the tubes?
I am thinking a hinged grate or possibly a hinged cover and automated air baffel. I like automation.

Would gravel foundations work better than concrete?
Rock has good thermal mass, but the equation really only calls for mass.

Have any diagrams or pictures please?
Attached a sketchup file of my current draft (still a work in progress). If you have sketchup, or sketchup viewer on your phone you should be able to view / edit it.
Filename: earthship3.skp
Description: 6 bed earthship sketchup
File size: 1 megabytes
 
gardener & bricolagier
Posts: 2953
Location: SW Missouri
930
goat cat fungi books chicken earthworks food preservation cooking building homestead ungarbage
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think it would work. I'm designing something similar involving buried 4 inch pipes for our house, going down to where it's always cool.
And codes probably doesn't care what you do with pipes.

I started a thread telling where to view the 2018 building codes online, you might find them useful if you haven't read them. Check in the energy efficiency chapter (14 I think it was) might be something in there that you can use to justify it if you have to. As far as I can tell, it's legal and works. Your mileage may vary if you are in another state, with the local stuff.
Thread about where to find the 2018 building codes online

Edit: something to account for: make it smooth walled pipe, the corrugated stuff gets moisture in it, can't be cleaned, and ends up moldy. A lot of people learned that the hard way.
 
Samuel Weight
Posts: 7
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The latest version; I think I am ready to speak to an engineer.
Filename: earthship3-(1).skp
File size: 1 megabytes
 
John C Daley
Posts: 800
Location: Bendigo , Australia
32
dog homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I cannot open thosefiles
What is your equation please?
 
Samuel Weight
Posts: 7
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The latest version is attached now with some basic layers added. This is a SketchUp file; I saved it in Sketchup 2017 format (the oldest they offer online) so you should be able to open it with any newer version of SketchUp without a problem. You can use their app online for free using a google account at app.sketchup.com or download the 'SketchUp Viewer' app for mobile devices.


Filename: earthship5.skp
File size: 1 megabytes
 
John C Daley
Posts: 800
Location: Bendigo , Australia
32
dog homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Maybe a photo would be easier as I dont download stuff unless I am using it
 
Samuel Weight
Posts: 7
1
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here are a few image files.
Screenshot_2019-04-09-00-49-23.png
[Thumbnail for Screenshot_2019-04-09-00-49-23.png]
Screenshot_2019-04-09-00-49-50.png
[Thumbnail for Screenshot_2019-04-09-00-49-50.png]
Screenshot_2019-04-09-00-52-35.png
[Thumbnail for Screenshot_2019-04-09-00-52-35.png]
 
John C Daley
Posts: 800
Location: Bendigo , Australia
32
dog homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks for the images
It is clearer now, as they say, a picture is better than a thousand words!
I doubt much light would come through those tubes if they are 20 feet long and buried deep.
Maybe painting then white inside may help, but I think some small skylights in each room would be more effective of better value.

 
Samuel Weight
Posts: 7
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Good point I will have to check code on egress to see if a hatch out the roof would count.
 
John C Daley
Posts: 800
Location: Bendigo , Australia
32
dog homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
What are you planning to make the roof of?
Do you have bushfire problems where you plan to build?
Your whole plan looks a bit wonky really. Earthships usually have earth over the top, the wide back wall will not have a great benefit than something 1/2 that width I think.
Why not have the bedrooms coming to the front wall of the house with a narrow halway and glass in the upper walls to the bedrooms
 
Samuel Weight
Posts: 7
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
    Earthships typically have metal roofs to collect rainwater with loads of EPS insulation under them. This is a sketch and the retaining wall thickness is not set yet. In my dreams the greenhouse side wall is 2-3 foot thick rammed earth for maximum thermal mass. The cooling tubes and berm would be 40 feet long and 5 feet deep so they don't need to be insulated on the top. The pitch of the roof would still be angled to match the winter solstice for maximum solar gain. I am not yet convinced that there is a need for the glass to not be vertical.
 
John C Daley
Posts: 800
Location: Bendigo , Australia
32
dog homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The advantage of sloping glass is reduced reflection
 
Pearl Sutton
gardener & bricolagier
Posts: 2953
Location: SW Missouri
930
goat cat fungi books chicken earthworks food preservation cooking building homestead ungarbage
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Vertical glass doesn't break as easily. Has to do with the crystalline structure.
 
John C Daley
Posts: 800
Location: Bendigo , Australia
32
dog homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am assuming glass that is suitable for the task is being used.
 
I can't beleive you just said that. Now I need to calm down with this tiny ad:
Dave Burton's Boot Adventures at Wheaton Labs and Basecamp
https://permies.com/t/119676/permaculture-projects/Dave-Burton-Boot-Adventures-Wheaton
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!