food forest layout - spacing

Hi everyone,

I am in the process of starting a small food forest (1000 sq meters).
I have read a fair bit of sources around the web but I still have questions regarding spacing between plants. It is now time to open up some paths and I would like to draw the layout on google earth: i mean drawing the paths, and mark places where the trees will be. My idea (correct me if I am wrong) would be to mark where canopy trees will be already taking into account how much space their crowns will have when mature. I have read in some sites (e.g. here) that i should leave some extra space between crowns. My question may sound stupid, but is this rule valid only for spacing between canopy trees or also between canopy and dwarf trees? If you could direct me to some nice pages about layout of forest gardens, I appreciate.

Thanks in advance!
Fernando

Hi Fernando,
I gather you are based in Portugal?  The main reason for increased spacing of the canopy trees is to make sure that enough sunlight is available to the lower layers for your other plants.  I guess this will be less of an issue for you in Portugal than more northerly climes, since more plants will probably thrive in more shade for you.
My suggestion would be to study any mature woodlands near you and see how the natural vegetation is spaced.  
In the early years all the plants will have plenty of sun.  I would plant some more densely and some with more space, so that you have a variety of planting situations.
Have fun!

Hi Nancy, thanks for your reply. That's correct, I'm in Portugal. This is a south facing slope with plenty of sun all year round (of course, winter is not as sunny as people north from here tend to think...). My question to you is then, given these conditions: wouldn't I even need to adjust spacing to respect the canopy size of fully mature trees? That would be great news for me Anyway, also counting on the fact that most won't survive I will plant densely as you advise.

As for "natural" woodlands near me, let me tell you they are huge and make up 98% of the space within a radius of 5km... But, as we suffer a lot from fires, when nature rebuilds itself it is mostly pine (pinus pinaster) monoculture. And they don't look good, because these pines have very very little space between them  (maximum 2 meters, but often I really mean something like 3 pines per sqm) and the needles fall on the branches, so there is no light under them and basically no life - no understory plants seems to survive under these pines. Ahah sounds bad, but that's what it is. The native forest, however, is quite different from this (quercus with plenty of life under). I would have to go and study these; however far from here.

Cheers!
Fernando

Fernando,
Maybe I was not clear. According to Martin Crawford in 'Creating a forest garden' (highly recommended reading!) you should space the canopy trees so that they do not touch when mature, except perhaps if there is a great difference in canopy heights.  Martin has very tall alders as one of his canopy trees in Devon which are pruned to let more light underneath with our lower sun heights, helping the lower levels.
The positioning of the shorter 'shrub' layer plants can overlap with the higher trees, but bear in mind root competition, light competition, nutrition requirements and alleopathic effects, access for harvest, etc..  Graham Burnett has a brief guide on spiralseed
If, like me, you have a windy site, having a closer spacing helps the plants establish, or you can plant nurse plants that will be removed later on as they all grow.  
I meant that because you are sunnier, you will be able generally to have a closer spacing than in the UK.  Hope this helps!

Sorry Nancy, somehow i missed your reply. You answered my question, and hanks again for the references. I will be using the canopy sizes and distances and will start marking the terrain. Exciting! I wish the autumn comes fast