Search...
Home Subscribe
Pie
Home Subscribe
Recent topics Flagged topics Hot topics Best topics
Search...
Search within ponds Search permies
Advance search Google search
Register / Login
permaculture bootcamp design SKIP=SKills to Inherit Property PEP Permaculture Experience According to Paul WGD garden Steampunk airship invention--show off your invention! Building a Better World Book with earth bricks
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
SKIP=SKills to Inherit Property PEP Permaculture Experience According to Paul Thread boost dog fence Shovel black and white permaculture bootcamp sketch with tools
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • r ranson
  • Carla Burke
  • Nancy Reading
  • John F Dean
  • Jay Angler
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Burra Maluca
  • Joseph Lofthouse
master gardeners:
  • Timothy Norton
  • Christopher Weeks
gardeners:
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • Maieshe Ljin
  • Nina Surya

Snakes / Critters in natural pools

 
Ivan Mayes
Posts: 13
Location: Fayetteville, AR
posted 12 years ago
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hey David!

I've been very interested in building a natural pool since I saw some of the first permies videos showing some of the examples. However, I live in Arkansas and we of course have alot of potentially dangerous water loving snakes and other things that like water habitats. Have you had any experience with this issue and what kind of mentality do you have about balancing natural ecosystems with the danger of some species in your swimming area? And are there any methods to take to dissuade snakes from setting up camp in/around my natural pool?

Thanks!
 
David Pagan Butler
author
Posts: 31
7
posted 12 years ago
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Ivan,
A Natural Swimming Pool can be constructed with two separate pools, one for the plants and animals, and one for swimming. Their only interconnection would be via pipework. The swimming area could look similar to a conventional pool. So the issue is really, if is safe to swim in a conventional chlorinated outdoor pool swimming in your area then a Natural Swimming Pool should be just as safe.

Hi I’m David. I am probably the only person to have two Organic Pools (aka Natural Swimming Pools). The reason for this over indulgence was to make a DIY film of the process. Loads of these pools have been made all over the place, helping make the world slightly wetter, pond by pond. I have also made a short film for the BBC about Natural Swimming Pools introducing the concept to a wider audience here in the UK. As a consequence of all of this, I have started giving courses to fellow self-builders who have traveled from far and wide to come and sit in my garden and talk about pools and ponds for two days. What could be nicer?
David Pagan Butler organicpools.co.uk

 
Adam Gulliford
Posts: 20
1
posted 12 years ago
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello,

Speaking of critters, is there any reason to worry about Naelgeria fowelri with a natural pool?
 
David Pagan Butler
author
Posts: 31
7
posted 12 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Has there been an example of this occurring in a Natural Swimming Pool? Many thousands of Natural Swimming Pools have been created and there have been no reported health issues.

Hi I’m David. I am probably the only person to have two Organic Pools (aka Natural Swimming Pools). The reason for this over indulgence was to make a DIY film of the process. Loads of these pools have been made all over the place, helping make the world slightly wetter, pond by pond. I have also made a short film for the BBC about Natural Swimming Pools introducing the concept to a wider audience here in the UK. As a consequence of all of this, I have started giving courses to fellow self-builders who have traveled from far and wide to come and sit in my garden and talk about pools and ponds for two days. What could be nicer?
David Pagan Butler organicpools.co.uk

 
Devon Olsen
Posts: 1274
Location: Central Wyoming -zone 4
47
I like...
hugelkultur monies dog chicken building sheep
posted 12 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
im not personally familiar with reptiles of the south but i know that in some of the places ive lived (nearly everywhere ive lived has had rattlers about) that california king snakes were one of our favorite pets because they eat rattlers
ive also heard that jumping spiders eat and chase away brown recluse
so perhaps there are other snakes in the area that will not only eat or scare away the dangerous ones but also fill its niche in the ecosystem, the idea being that if a safe snake eats everything that a dangerous snake may eat than there is no more food left for the dangerous snake and it will go elsewhere...

Farm Website
My Available products thread . My Blog!! . My Podcast!!

 
Brenda Groth
pollinator
Posts: 4437
Location: North Central Michigan
43
posted 12 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
i have had deer give birth in the more natural shallower end of my pond and I get bear in there from time to time (they do mess up the plants)

Brenda

Bloom where you are planted.
http://restfultrailsfoodforestgarden.blogspot.com/

 
Sandy Sibert
Posts: 1
posted 12 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I so want to do this, the hole is dug and been dry for 2 years due to drought as it is filled only by rain fall. We had 6 inches of rain last week and its 1/4 full. I wish I had seen this sooner but since I live in south Texas it will be dry again. What is the average cost? And what do you do about cotton mouth snakes, they are very aggressive when in their territory, and they come uninvited.
 
David Pagan Butler
author
Posts: 31
7
posted 12 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Sandy,
the most costly item for a self built Natural Swimming Pool is the pool liner. You need to measure it up and get a quote. (here in the UK it's around £5 per square meter so I'm guessing around $1 per square foot).
I can't really advise on the snake issue. A conventional chlorinated outdoor pool will carry a similar risk so talk to a local pool installer to see how they deal with snakes. Better still get advice from a local ecologist. It maybe the case that any pool, Natural Swimming Pool or conventional pool, may not be appropriate to your area.

Hi I’m David. I am probably the only person to have two Organic Pools (aka Natural Swimming Pools). The reason for this over indulgence was to make a DIY film of the process. Loads of these pools have been made all over the place, helping make the world slightly wetter, pond by pond. I have also made a short film for the BBC about Natural Swimming Pools introducing the concept to a wider audience here in the UK. As a consequence of all of this, I have started giving courses to fellow self-builders who have traveled from far and wide to come and sit in my garden and talk about pools and ponds for two days. What could be nicer?
David Pagan Butler organicpools.co.uk

 
Ivan Mayes
Posts: 13
Location: Fayetteville, AR
posted 12 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

David Pagan Butler wrote:I can't really advise on the snake issue. A conventional chlorinated outdoor pool will carry a similar risk so talk to a local pool installer to see how they deal with snakes. Better still get advice from a local ecologist. It maybe the case that any pool, Natural Swimming Pool or conventional pool, may not be appropriate to your area.



I think the difference between a conventional pool looks, from the examples i've seen, to be that there is a plant ecosystem in the pool that provides habitat for snakes, and also makes it more difficult to see one should it be there. In our climate we see very little issue with snakes in conventional pools (unless they get trapped there) simply because there is nothing for them there, aside from perhaps a sunny open area to sunbathe. Also, its very easy to see them in the pool or surrounding area typically because conventional pools don't typically have any place to hide around them.

Not trying to knock natural pools, in fact I am curious about other peoples experience with these issues so that I can make sure that the pool I build is safe for my niece to use. I don't think many people would be comfortable with their kids running and jumping into a pool that might have an aggressive or territorial snake that is setting up home and not easily detectable though. Anyways, I am determined to build one, so I will perhaps resurrect this thread next year and report my findings / potential solutions for snakes.
 
David Pagan Butler
author
Posts: 31
7
posted 12 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Ivan,
your thoughts are very welcome and informative and tie in with the option I gave a the beginning. Building two separate pools, one for plants to condition the water and one for swimming. They are interconnected only through "snakeproof" pipework.

Hi I’m David. I am probably the only person to have two Organic Pools (aka Natural Swimming Pools). The reason for this over indulgence was to make a DIY film of the process. Loads of these pools have been made all over the place, helping make the world slightly wetter, pond by pond. I have also made a short film for the BBC about Natural Swimming Pools introducing the concept to a wider audience here in the UK. As a consequence of all of this, I have started giving courses to fellow self-builders who have traveled from far and wide to come and sit in my garden and talk about pools and ponds for two days. What could be nicer?
David Pagan Butler organicpools.co.uk

 
Ivan Mayes
Posts: 13
Location: Fayetteville, AR
posted 12 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Ah i'm sorry I didn't realize there would only be plants in the second pool to filter the water. What you said makes alot more sense now, thanks David!
 
Betsy Carraway
pollinator
Posts: 132
Location: Mississippi
52
posted 2 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi y'all; I just think something needs to be said for knowing what snakes are in your area; I grew up in MA; supposedly we had some rattlesnakes but I never saw one; we played with the other ones, mostly garter snakes.  BUT after moving to MS I learned some Respect!  One day shortly after moving here, my hubs and I were taking a circuit of the property.  We were on the home stretch when I HAD to go to the bathroom; and so close to the house.  But there was a snoozing snake in the middle of the path; and on both sides, full drainage ditches...so I picked up a brick bat and lobbed it at the (really Big) cottonmouth; in one second, it moved 6 feet closer to us, and lapped its jaws open I kid you not, 180 degrees - and just froze in that position.  Ay caramba!

The thing you must learn about "snakes" is that certain ones in the most-venomous category (here, cottonmouth moccasins and copperheads) are also MORE AGGRESSIVE.  There are stories about people in rowboats, fishing, getting tooo close to the hummocky places where they nest and being chased...and they do not chase a little and give up!!! If you can't get away you have to kill it or it will attack you, and You might die.

This global warming has me expecting alligators in our area; well, they are3 already here, but in FL they say every body of water has gators...we are probably next for that.  A sweet young couple moved a trailer onto land at the foot of our driveway; there is a drainage ditch nearby, that goes under the road.  They have had moccasins on their steps, under the house, and all over the yard.
So while I want to have a wetlands garden and grow taro and etc., I'm just not gonna.

Make sure you really know the area, and if needed call the Zoo and have a talk with the herpetologist.  They know what you might encounter.  In mine area, for sure, a pond is just an invitation to trouble.  We use a big round Rubbermaid trough for the daily dip in hot weather.  Got it up under some Live Oaks; it works just fine.
 
We're being followed by intergalactic spies! Quick! Take this tiny ad!
Home Mushroom Cultivation Class Recordings from Fungi Ally
https://permies.com/t/212599/Home-Mushroom-Cultivation-Class-Recordings
reply
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!
Similar Threads
More...