trouble shooting my micro hydro

Hello, I am new to this forum, and to micro hydro.  I am hoping to find someone that is good with water flow dynamics.

I just installed a watter buddy micro hydro generator. It should max out at about 200watts, which is plenty for what I need. I am only getting 75watts. I need to increase my dynamic PSI and I have a few thoughts on how to do that.

1. Currently I have a 1" water line with 180PSI static and 55PSI dynamic at the generator.  Within 2' of my generator I step down to a 3/4" PEX and then to a 1/2" PEX just before the water enters the generator nozzle. The nozzle has a 1/2" inlet and 6mm exit. If I remove the 1/2" PEX will that increase my PSI at the nozzle outlet?

2. At the head, spring, I have a 6' 2 inch pipe feeding my 1" waterline. I also have a valve on the 1" which uses barbs to connect to my 1 inch line. So I actually shrink down to 3/4" through my valve. If I remove this valve and go straight through with 1" will that help?
.
3. Just thought of this. What if I increase the length of my 2" pipe at the head. Say  to 100'.

Thank you,
Bob

The last one would probably give you the most bang for your buck if the pipe is accessible. That long length of 1” pipe would have a significant drag on it.

Hi Bob;
Welcome to Permies!
I've been living with micro hydro for 30 years.
Not familiar with a water buddy but pelton wheel's are all the same.
Is this a permanent magnet  alternator? Or is it brushed?
How far from the spring to the hydro?
How much vertical drop?
Is your 2" pipe at the top filled up or just running thru quickly?
You have 180 psi at the bottom, that's a lot but you only have 55 Psi if the hydro is running?
How many GPM is your hydro configured to use?

How are you dealing with the waste water after the hydro?


Your 1" valve at the top is not hurting anything.
Your size reduction at the bottom is hurting .  All it is doing, is reducing the amount that can be supplied to make power.
Your running a 1/4" nozzle that's huge for a one nozzle system  I use a 9/64" nozzle to make 100+ watts using apx 3-4 gpm
I suspect  your not supplying enough water.

If you can fill your 2" pipe then make it as long as possible.
If your pipe run is long  (mine is 2200') 1" is to small.
A common fix for line loss is to travel 100-300' then increase pipe size by 1/2 so jump to 1 1/2" pipe for the next 300'  then you can switch back to 1"and again as needed.
Down at your hydro I would use 2" (white) hard line and then a 1" or 1.5" coming up to the hydro.    Your creating reservoirs in line.

Who sized your system for you?
The seller?  Or did you?  

Thank you for your input. Here are some answers to your questions.

I have 500' of head and I am 3900' from my spring to my hydro.

I had a designer of solar and hydro systems size my system

My spring is approximately 25CFS, yes it is big. The 2" pipe is submerged and completely filled. I actually have a tee so water can flow in from both ends.

I am not sure what is under the hood of the unit, magnets or brushes. I think it is magnets.

I get 14GPM from my 1" pipe, I am not sure how many gallons of that flow through the generator when it is running.

I have a tail pipe, so the water free falls into a pipe, back to the stream.

I can upload a picture of my box with generator if that helps.

I have different size nozzles. 6mm was installed until a few hours ago 75 watts at 55PSI. I just put a 7mm on and now getting 38watts at 35PSI. I also have a 4mm and 5mm I can try.

Are you saying I should  vary the diameter of my pipe as it travels over the 3900'?

Also, you are saying run the 1" right to the nozzle? So I would put a reducer from 1" (pipe) to 1/2" (nozzle threads)?


Thanks you for your help.

Bob

Hi Bob;
This is great!   You had good answers for all my questions!
Your spring sounds awesome and your tail pipe return to the spring is perfect!
You had a pro size your set up.
You should be able to get 200 watts easy.

In my opinion  3900' of 1"  is too small a dia.    
So I'm suggesting either replace the whole line (I know $$$)  with 1.5" or even 2"  or add the size steps every 300' or so.
I assume your using black poly pipe ?
Is it buried?   Or run down the spring?

I strongly suspect your 1" pipe can not keep up with the flow out of your hydro.
Flowing water creates friction.  A 1/2 " pipe will stop flowing given enough distance.
Even though your flowing 14 gpm from the 1" pipe for a while, your hydro is running 24 -7...   it adds up.

To start I would remove your pex reductions and get at least a 3/4" line to the hydro and see what, if any differences in output there are.

Bob;
If your hydro uses brushes then you would have a rheostat knob on the box to fine tune output while spinning.

If your hydro is permanent magnet it needs to be fine tuned by adjusting the gap between magnets.
Kind of a back and forth adjustment until your getting the most power.
This adjustment is made with the hydro off.

It is possible that this might be a part of your troubles.

Has this adjustment  been done?

Wow thanks Thomas for all your input.

I did not tune the generator, there is nothing in the manual about doing tuning, so probably not something I can do.

As far as swapping out my 1" for 2", my wife is not real happy with you right now. She helped me with the 1" and hated every minute of it. And yes the cost would be huge. I could buy enough batteries and solar panels, instead of increasing my pipe to 2". Plus not have to pay for a divorce.

So I will try these to things.

1. take out the 1/2" pex and replace with 3/4".

2. At the spring put 200' of 2 inch and see if this ups my pressure.

3. I do not understand the intermittent 1" and 2" part, but I know pretty much nothing about hydraulics, so I will trust you that it works. I  will try it if my pressure is still low after 1 and 2.

Oh and yes I am using black poly pipe 165PSI.
The pipe is not buried it runs through the stream bed, We did bury  it with rocks where cows have paths through the stream.
Another question for you, did you use black pipe? How did you connect your lengths of pipe, we use blue-lock push-ons which work great for connecting to pieces. But we are using barbs to connect valves which constrict flow and seem to always leak. Have you found anything better?



Thank you,
Bob Greely

Hi Bob;
Can't say I blame your wife.  3/4 of a mile dragging pipe thru the creek... that's work.
She may be upset with my thoughts but I'm impressed with her gumption!
Quite the girl you married!
Better keep her happy!

So I just looked up watterbuddy,  they don't really tell you anything about it.
No mention of adjustment at all, just the mysterious hi - lo switch???
They tell you how (sort of) to change the bearings.
They never say what style Alternator they use.    (Maybe a phone call to Canada?)
I'm not impressed with their website info.

To start I'm not an expert here so don't swallow everything I say without other testing or input.
My Hydro knowledge is 30 years old...  maybe you do not need to dial in permanent magnet alternators anymore???
Hell I don't know!
Personally I don't see how but I am a dinosaur about new electronics.


Now they did have a good line friction table.
If you look at 14 gpm  you'll see 1" line is horrible with big loss every 100'
Simply stepping up to 1.25" is a great improvement and 1.5"   (what I use) is better yet.

I used internal barbed connectors with hose clamps every 300'.
Mine line is 200 psi  black poly and it is buried.









   

Update:
I am now getting  107watts. Making progress. Thomas in one of your posts you mentioned my nozzle opening was huge. So I put a smaller nozzle on, I went from a 6mm to a 4mm. And boom I have 107watts, up from 74. Next I will get rid of that 1/2" PEX, but I will have to wait until we do trip to the store for parts.

Thanks,
Bob