Permaculture Relationships

I have given a lot of thought to relationships and the philosophy of permaculture. In contemporary American culture (and probably a lot of other cultures) the idea of permanent relationships is uncommon. Long lasting relationships either do not happen, or they are draining and depleting. In permaculture the soil is supposed to improve with time, and the sign that you are doing something wrong is when the soil depletes over time. The same is true of relationships. A long-term permaculture relationship ought to get better over time. If someone in a relationship is being depleted, that is a sign that it is going wrong. It is not necessarily a sign that you have the wrong partner. It is just a sign that you and your partner aren't doing the relationship right. Dumping them and moving on for a better partner is just like deciding to grow a different crop next year. Unless you have been building the soil it won't matter what the next crop is. The soil needs to be improved. Fix the approach to the relationship instead of just hunting for the next relationship.

Marriage is probably the most "permaculture" relationship there is, and it has fallen largely out of favor in society. In many cases people even regard marriage as something undesirable or something harmful. Parent-child relationships are another form of permaculture, but these are also falling out of favor. The high divorce rate often damages children's relationships with parents, and families that remain intact through the childhood years often fall into estrangement when the kids grow up, through disagreements with in-laws or other differences. Our society has been fragmenting for several generations, from marriages to neighborhoods to politics to vaccines and lifestyle decisions. This is a sign that we are doing relationships wrong. It is not a sign that permaculture relationships are bad, or impossible. It is a sign that we are doing them wrong. In general the way I see it is that if your relationship with someone else is based on what they do for you, or you do for them, then you have a transactional relationship. Transactional relationships are not permanent. They are based on what you have to offer and what the other person has to offer. This is poor soil for a permanent relationship. It will not work. Relationships that are built upon strengthening one another are going to work longer and better.

Instead of using one another for what you can get, you should be cultivating the soil for a long term, permanent relationship that improves with time instead of getting depleted with time.

These are thoughts that occurred to me recently, which I am posting here because I do not really know what other forum to post them in.

Some wise words there my friend.
Do you know why friendships are maintained?  Because each one "gets" something.  The something can be wise words, a hot meal, a pat on the back etc.
Relationships are transactions because if there is not a transaction there is no relationship, like buyer and seller, parent and child.  Parent, child, sibs are a matter of kinship, you know them because of birth. Friendships, marriages, coworkers are by choosing to be "in" the relationship.  Marriage is better if both partners share the same values, ethics, morals there are fewer disagreements. These relationships are built on time, exchanges between the parties, feelings or emotions which elicit memories of good, bad or indifferent times spent together.
People do change, most of the time not much, unless there is a "shattering" event.  This could be death or sickness, or as simple as one partner seeing the other partner clearly (taking off their own rose colored glasses) for the first time.  It is how the two decide to either establish a different relationship or break or shatter the existing one.  
People are not easy.  How do we learn to be sociable people? from the ones around us and sometimes genes deal us a rotten hand to play out in life.  
As you say building the soil is improving yourself - maybe self care and caring for what you have.  As i have counseled - when someone has gone through a bad break up - go take care of your life - your self - your dream - you will stumble over the right person and if by chance you do not - be content with what you have made for and of yourself.  You are the only person who can make you happy!    
TS do you mind my asking what your relationship status is?  

Terry Wilson wrote:Some wise words there my friend.
Do you know why friendships are maintained?  Because each one "gets" something.  The something can be wise words, a hot meal, a pat on the back etc.
Relationships are transactions because if there is not a transaction there is no relationship, like buyer and seller, parent and child.  Parent, child, sibs are a matter of kinship, you know them because of birth. Friendships, marriages, coworkers are by choosing to be "in" the relationship.  Marriage is better if both partners share the same values, ethics, morals there are fewer disagreements. These relationships are built on time, exchanges between the parties, feelings or emotions which elicit memories of good, bad or indifferent times spent together.
People do change, most of the time not much, unless there is a "shattering" event.  This could be death or sickness, or as simple as one partner seeing the other partner clearly (taking off their own rose colored glasses) for the first time.  It is how the two decide to either establish a different relationship or break or shatter the existing one.  
People are not easy.  How do we learn to be sociable people? from the ones around us and sometimes genes deal us a rotten hand to play out in life.  
As you say building the soil is improving yourself - maybe self care and caring for what you have.  As i have counseled - when someone has gone through a bad break up - go take care of your life - your self - your dream - you will stumble over the right person and if by chance you do not - be content with what you have made for and of yourself.  You are the only person who can make you happy!    
TS do you mind my asking what your relationship status is?  

Hi Terry, I have been married about 20 years, and each year has been better than the year before, no exaggeration. You stated above that "relationships are transactions because if there is no transaction there is no relationship." I think this is reductionist thinking, and I think it is near the core of why so many relationships fail. Of course there are transactions in some sense in all relationships, but relationships that are based on transactions are not healthy relationships. That is what I am trying to say.

You don't have a healthy relationship with the lady at the cash register because all you do with her is make a transaction. The moment you begin communicating on a personal level you are taking the relationship above the transaction, and turning it into something healthier. Now it is no longer about a transaction but about a person. Most people intrinsically know this, and will attempt to engage in polite small talk. Even a bad relationship, if it is personally bad, is in some sense healthier than a transactional relationship. At least the relationship is bad because you know one another well enough to dislike each other. At least your dislike is based on something true, rather than indifference, in which the two people don't even know one another. Relationships in which we simply use one another for various things, even if those things are good things, are bad relationships.

It is not possible to truly love someone when your relationship is based on what you do for them and what they do for you. This is why the traditional wedding vows say nothing about what my spouse will do for me. The vows are unconditional. I am obligated to love honor and cherish my wife in richer, poorer, sickness, health, etc... no matter what. Regardless of whether she holds up her end of the bargain. It isn't a bargain. It is a covenant. That's the point. Whether she carries her weight or not, I am obligated under God and by my vows before witnesses. Likewise she is also obligated in the same ways. I believe that is the "permaculture" way of doing relationships. The result is that the soil improves every single year, instead of being depleted every year. Even if she were to fail miserably each day, if I remain faithful to my vows, my love for her will grow. For ordinary people this kind of love will sooner or later win them over, just like continuously improving the soil will eventually yield you better crops. And even if it doesn't, the soil is still better than it was before and you haven't lost anything.

These ideas come from a combination of Bible reading and life experience with my wife of applying the stuff we read there.

T S Rodriguez wrote:

Terry Wilson wrote:Some wise words there my friend.
Do you know why friendships are maintained?  Because each one "gets" something.  The something can be wise words, a hot meal, a pat on the back etc.
Relationships are transactions because if there is not a transaction there is no relationship, like buyer and seller, parent and child.  Parent, child, sibs are a matter of kinship, you know them because of birth. Friendships, marriages, coworkers are by choosing to be "in" the relationship.  Marriage is better if both partners share the same values, ethics, morals there are fewer disagreements. These relationships are built on time, exchanges between the parties, feelings or emotions which elicit memories of good, bad or indifferent times spent together.


People do change, most of the time not much, unless there is a "shattering" event.  This could be death or sickness, or as simple as one partner seeing the other partner clearly (taking off their own rose colored glasses) for the first time.  It is how the two decide to either establish a different relationship or break or shatter the existing one.  
People are not easy.  How do we learn to be sociable people? from the ones around us and sometimes genes deal us a rotten hand to play out in life.  
As you say building the soil is improving yourself - maybe self care and caring for what you have.  As i have counseled - when someone has gone through a bad break up - go take care of your life - your self - your dream - you will stumble over the right person and if by chance you do not - be content with what you have made for and of yourself.  You are the only person who can make you happy!    
TS do you mind my asking what your relationship status is?  

Hi Terry, I have been married about 20 years, and each year has been better than the year before, no exaggeration. You stated above that "relationships are transactions because if there is no transaction there is no relationship." I think this is reductionist thinking, and I think it is near the core of why so many relationships fail. Of course there are transactions in some sense in all relationships, but relationships that are based on transactions are not healthy relationships. That is what I am trying to say.

You don't have a healthy relationship with the lady at the cash register because all you do with her is make a transaction. The moment you begin communicating on a personal level you are taking the relationship above the transaction, and turning it into something healthier. Now it is no longer about a transaction but about a person. Most people intrinsically know this, and will attempt to engage in polite small talk. Even a bad relationship, if it is personally bad, is in some sense healthier than a transactional relationship. At least the relationship is bad because you know one another well enough to dislike each other. At least your dislike is based on something true, rather than indifference, in which the two people don't even know one another. Relationships in which we simply use one another for various things, even if those things are good things, are bad relationships.

It is not possible to truly love someone when your relationship is based on what you do for them and what they do for you. This is why the traditional wedding vows say nothing about what my spouse will do for me. The vows are unconditional. I am obligated to love honor and cherish my wife in richer, poorer, sickness, health, etc... no matter what. Regardless of whether she holds up her end of the bargain. It isn't a bargain. It is a covenant. That's the point. Whether she carries her weight or not, I am obligated under God and by my vows before witnesses. Likewise she is also obligated in the same ways. I believe that is the "permaculture" way of doing relationships. The result is that the soil improves every single year, instead of being depleted every year. Even if she were to fail miserably each day, if I remain faithful to my vows, my love for her will grow. For ordinary people this kind of love will sooner or later win them over, just like continuously improving the soil will eventually yield you better crops. And even if it doesn't, the soil is still better than it was before and you haven't lost anything.

These ideas come from a combination of Bible reading and life experience with my wife of applying the stuff we read there.

TS I think you are misinterpreting what TW is saying. Relationships are about what you both speak of. However when you like it to soil what you have to remember is that without the input it does not improve and the importance of input is not one part but 2 and in a lot of cases that is where relationships fail. No matter what you have in common if both parties do not feed the soil ( relationship) then it will not improve. And the one feeder is doing all the work till they cannot keep up and give up.

So I agree with both of you but additionally both parties have to WANT to feed the relationship.

Thank you Gilly - a transaction is when one person says "good morning" or "I love you" or "get away from me" a transaction is an interaction between people. People meet other people in which one of them remembers the other person for years.  I often speak about beekeeping. People have come up to me a year or so later and talk about a presentation I gave.  Do I remember them no, yes we had a tranaction - I was giving info and the were accepting it.  
If we never met - no interaction or transaction.  

Do you know the opposite of love?  It is not hate - hate is an action, a strong emotion. The opposite of love is indifference - not caring or no emotional reaction.

Gilly you are correct is saying both parties have to want to make it happen.  It is like when one partner cheats and wants to stay in the marriage or relationship - both have to want to make it happen.