Problem with gravity spring water at new house

Hi all,

We moved into a semi off grid house this summer in central Sweden (electricity but composting toilet and spring water system). The house has water fed by a spring which is approx 150 meters (perhaps more, I haven't measured) uphill from us. There is a line of PVC pipe set into the spring that runs downhill (above ground) about 100m to a stone well about 1.5m deep. This well acts as water collection. There is another PVC pipe, with a net filter, submerged in the well (you can access this length of pipe with some rope). This then runs underground to the house and feeds a kitchen sink, a bathroom sink, a shower, a washing machine and an outside tap. Water pressure is okay but not great, you can shower but its not what you'd call satisfying

I want to clarify that the system worked fine when we moved in.

But we've been having some problems recently. About 1.5 weeks ago water stopped coming out of the taps. I went up to the well and it was empty. Still plenty of water at the spring (which I think itself could be improved upon but right now I just need consistent water). Okay so we are living out of gallon containers until I fix this, that's okay we've done that for a spell before. But I want to fix this for autumn / winter.

Part of the problem is that I don't really understand exactly how these systems works;

- Should water be flowing constantly from the spring into the well, and then overflowing somewhere?

- Or should it only be drawn down the pipe, from the spring, into the well, when there is demand created at the house?

There is no overflow at the well so I suspect the latter. When demand is created at the house, a pressure drop occurs, and water is drawn not only from the well, but also from the spring - am I understanding correctly? I have seen systems where water is constantly fed into a water collection system, and allowed to overflow, but I'm not sure we have that level of supply. There are lots of videos online that show a spring being set up but not many that detail connection to a domestic water system.

I want to understand exactly how this works so I can troubleshoot it (I have already tried and have had some success but also further issues, to explain all that would bog this down).

I'd really appreciate any help, I will go and take some photos / videos later this week to illustrate the set up but for now I will post a little diagram.

Thanks all!!

So just to add some extra detail, one thing I tried to do to fix the situation was that I went up to the spring with a power drill pump. (Before going up, I made sure the bottom end of the pipe was submerged in water at the well end). Then I started pumping water manually down the pvc pipe, using the spring as the source. Eventually the pipe starting sucking of its own volition, and doing so quite violently. I would compare it to the force of a hoover, it was strong enough to suck small rocks in and leaves, and if I put my hand over, it would suck my fingers in like a hoover. In fact it was sucking so much water down that it was using up the spring before it had time to recover. I'd say for every minute of sucking water, I'd have to block up the pvc pipe and let it recover for 3 minutes. I blocked it up by literally putting a rubber glove near it and the suction would suck in the glove, much like a hoover. Then repeat the process. Eventually after a long time repeating this I got the well full, but then it started to overflow, which is not what I want. I think what would be fine is a slow trickle, and instead I was sucking probably a few gallons down a minute.

I had thought that in order to create a link between the spring and the well, this is what I needed to do but I think I have misunderstood the physics perhaps?

At one time I lived where our house was watered by a spring above our house.  It came to a storage tank and then it was pumped from there to the house by a pressure pump. The storage tank had an overflow that ran into a livestock tank out by our corrals.  On occasion it would develop an air lock in the pipe between the spring and storage tank.  We had a manifold set up where I could open and close valves to send the pressure back to the spring to clear the airlock and it would work properly for months.  Your system is superior to what ours was when it works (energy free).  I'm wondering it you might either be getting air or those leaves in the supply line.  Perhaps a net filter over the intake at the spring or making sure to keep debris out of it.

If the system has no overflow and only works "on demand," I suspect there is some sort of check valve in the pipe system.

This may be a spring-loaded valve that is set to "sense" the difference between downstream and upstream pressure, and opens/closes the flow accordingly. Valves like this can easily become clogged with sediment or debris, since they only open/close a small amount and don't naturally flush themselves.

If possible, I would try to "backflush" the upstream portion of the pipe with pressurized water or air, in a series of pulses, to clean the valve. Be prepared to capture the debris/silt before it enters the well. My 2c.

Hi Luca;
I live with gravity water. At times they can act up and force you to have to deal with it.
Mine will plug with debris every few years and I have to use a large tow behind the truck air compressor and blow backward up 2200' of 1.5" line to push out the debris. After that, it works great for a few years before needing cleaning again.

I think your pipe had been partially blocked and now you have it clear again for the first time in years.
Your well may be overflowing because you assisted it in completely filling. You're sure there is no buried overflow pipe from the well?
Maybe your spring is flowing more now than it used to and you will need to put in an overflow pipe.

Gravity water is a blessing, mine even produces most of our electricity.
It can be a bitch when they act up!
Good Luck you will figure it out.

Possible Points of Failure
- Spring
- Aboveground Pipe
- Well
- Underground Pipe
- House Pipes

Spring
It could be that the Spring isn't producing as much due to a drought or someone has installed an irrigation well upstream of you ahd thus lowering the water table that feeds the spring

PipeS
It could be that the inlet/outlet of the pipe is partially blocked on inside of the pipe due to leaves/etc.  It would be that the pipe is leaking and thus not sending enough water to its outlet

Well
Maybe it is now filled up with sediment and cant hold as much water. Maybe it isn't as water tight as before and water is disappearing into the soil and the well is never filled, or takes longer to refill

Hello everyone,

Thank you for all your messages. After typing this out I did a bit more research and a bit more thinking. I'm now of the opinion that this isn't a demand system at all. I think I accidentally created suction between the well and the spring when that isn't required. Most gravity fed spring systems don't require suction right? They work purely on gravity alone, carrying the water down to where it needs to go. We are completely downhill from both the spring and the well, so gravity alone should be fine. There hasn't been a drought, it's been a very wet summer and a normal autumn here in Sweden with plenty of water. We don't have to worry about anything upstream from the spring, its near the top of a peak which is completely uninhabited, in fact we are on the edge of a village and in that direction there aren't any houses (apart from the odd cabin) for miles around.

I think actually the spring slowly fills up the well from gravity alone, and it overflows naturally. I was, in effect, pumping water down into the well causing a) the spring to run dry and b) the well to overflow quite dramatically. It's a very simple well, it hasn't been mortared, it's just stones set into earth. So the water should naturally just either leak out through the gaps, or overflow when left to its own devices / being fed slowly. Most gravity springs work on the basis that the quantity of water from the spring alone is not enough to meet the demand of the house, right? So you have storage downhill, and this fills up with water because although the water flow is relatively slow, it is constant. Then the actual demand is met by the storage (whether a well, a plastic barrel etc). which also works on the principle of gravity. But the two systems are separate right? You could in theory go up to the well (or barrel) and fill this up manually, and the system should still work, right? I'm partly typing this out just to make sense of it.

This does makes sense in the context of the house because whilst the spring is quite far uphill from the house, the well itself is probably only 50m from the house, and the bottom of the well isn't much higher than say the roof of the house - which would explain why the water pressure in the house is not great.

I think I have two separate problems. There is air in the pipes in the house / the pipes that run to the house. And there is air / a siphon in the pipe that runs downhill from the spring to the well. The pipe does just run downhill but it isn't buried and there is nothing securing it to the ground so it is just sitting on the ground, so there are sections that could go up slightly just from that. I'm thinking that's the problem with that side. And in terms of the house, air probably got in because the well ran dry.

I bought some proper fittings for the water pump I have, and my next plan is to pump water from the well into the pipe that runs to the house, and try and completely clear any air in the system. Then I'll submerge the pipe back at the bottom of the well. If the water in the house then works fine I will know that was the problem and I can try and fix the supply from the spring next.

Does that all make sense?