RMH Emissions

Was wondering if anyone had any specifics on the emissions of RMH's? Any tests been done with regards to NOx, CO, etc.? Also, are there any similar stoves on the market to purchase or are they being made by individuals only? What do folks think about the future prospect of something like this getting on the market (if not already) and what are the main challenges going to be? Thanks for your input.

Toms Von Palmer : It is my understanding that the UL test of one Unit which certifies the model, not individual Units, starts at $50,000.oo U.S. . There was some talk about a fund raising program through 'KICKSTARTER' ! I think that Those interested individuals want to have an Idea of the projected durability of their model in terms of years - not testing durability, before bringing a model to the good people at UL !

Having worked on 2 builds, I now know that whoever is acting as the general contractor must Understand the Physics of, and be a Craftsman in 2 convergent disciplines, Call them Rocket and Cob ! As general contractor you must be able to communicate clearly with the home owner, to deliver what he/she wants within the laws of physics, dealing with expectation based on feelings rather than facts, and also deal with changes that are discovered only after the build is started, All of this and estimating job costs, labor and materials, not much in the way of special tools beyond what you could carry in two 5 gal buckets !

At this time the traveling nature of your builds would mean that you would be ether giving free presentations , or doing work shops, work shops pay better ! In ether case you would need to be a showman, a builder who gives boring work shops will starve, while the Montyback will dine on tenderloins ! So say 5 years of training under someone then a new shippable cast-able ceramic and refractory kit comes on the market do you jump in or wait,5 years to build a reputation without starving While you build for the poor and working middle class and at the end of that time - more of the same, you would do better selling cell phones in the food court at the mail ! Its a Labor of love or nothing ! Pyro-Allen L.

Thanks for your reply I appreciate it. I actually live in Chile, so I'll have to look into the specifics of the law here about getting a product approved. I know there has been some recent changes. One thing I'm interested in, and hoping someone with some experience could advise me on, is the viability of building the stove part as something package-able or portable. One video I found was pretty interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBWSNjvO4cc&feature=related

Here in Chile, there is a great demand for cheap and efficient home heating. There is also a LOT of people experienced in working with adobe. (esp. in the country, most houses are adobe). What I'm thinking is something along the lines of providing the core stove assembly with some type of literature on turning it into a mass heater via adobe bench etc. But something that would function with or without. Any thoughts on the performance of a standalone rocket heater made of steel or another material and how it might compare performance-wise? Thanks.

Toms on my way out the door,please consider this strong request on my part ; go to www.rocketstoves.com and get a download-able copy of Ianto Evans' great book 'Rocket Mass Heaters' $15.oo there is no place with more specific information on Rocket Stoves anywhere in the world/any language Pyro - AL

Thanks Al, just started reading it looks great.

Toms : Just got back from being on a panel discussion on R.S.M.Heaters, wish I could have made reading the book mandatory to participate !

I should have just sent you here !
www.richsoil.com/permaculture/2181-225-rocket-mass-heater-workshop-part-1/
It's the discussion on a future cast-able, ship-able, three piece R.S.M.H. , now put on hold until they have some idea of its reliability /longevity !
This permies site and its sister site richsoil are the property of Paul Wheaton, Ernie And Erica Wisner are the stewards of the Rocket Stove forum thread !!

Hi, as far as emissions are concerned, Aprovecho are set up to do it; they share their protocols and equipment etc.
The video link below is long, but explains their stove work as well as testing.
This should get you on the right track...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWM3BELk8Uo&list=UUadP42o-1XSTgTwchg_QFeA&index=10&feature=plcp

Great stuff guys appreciate the help. Thanks too to Paul Ernie and Erica for the podcasts and the work they do, I will be paying attention and hope to get in on a workshop someday when I'm back that way.

Another question I have is about round vs square for both the inner burn chamber and riser and the outer shell itself. I know there may be an advantage with round, facilitating the spiral nature of the flow. If so how big of an advantage are we talking?

Also what do folks think about this guys design?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzc9rUq3Flc

Toms : Its a wood stove for sure, it is build on similar lines to a rocket stove but with decent insulation his wood box would shrink to the size of a loaf of bread - as is, its a great backyard toy ! Pyro-Al

Check for Peter van der berg or Peterberg if you want actual numbers.

what are your thoughts about a similar design with good insulation and a bigger casing, keeping the wood box about the same size as now?

T.V.P. : I think you would have a wood stove that burns wood almost as efficiently as a Rocket stove without enough Radiant surface, and no thermal mass for heat storage, throwing most of its heat away up the chimney!

What do you think ? pyro-maticly yours Allen L.

I think you're right, either a cob bench or unpressurized water tank might solve that.

T.V.P. : there have been some interesting comments about Phase changing materials i.e. gas to liquid, liquid to solid.
Often there is extra energy required at the phase change point to go from one state/phase to another !
Store heat in it at one state withdraw it at the next less active state, get all the heat back degree by degree plus a kicker at the phase/state change boundary !
let me look for a forum thread to share , - - bug me if I don't get back to you ! Pyro Allen !

T.V.P : this one was easy, dialogs start on my post. ! thread is 'four rocket mass heater questions' PYRO - AL