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How do I fix my problem apple tree? Grafting?

 
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4 years ago we planted a nice young apple tree in our orchard. As time has passed though we only get fruit on the bottom, and this year I could see why. The leaves on the top 3/4 of the tree, looks a lot different than what grows on the bottom fruiting part. It makes me wonder, if it’s the root stock that’s growing instead.
My question is, how do I fix this?
I have never done any grafting, but I am wondering if that can help with the problem?
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can you get in there and actually see a spot where rootstock reaches past the scion? grafting could help, but i think it could be important to know what’s really going on there to begin with. a deep inspection in the fall after the leaves are gone could help. with pics, if you want help!
 
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If the hardy dwarfing rootstock is bearing fruits adnd you like the flavor. Then I think that you should just think of it as a multi-graft, cool fruit tree. I would 100% let it stay until the top half of the tree start bearing fruits. If you currently have a 2 in 1 apple tree now, and then you add yet another graft, wouldn't you end up with a 3 in 1 apple tree. There is nothing wrong with doing it, you might even end up becoming a professional grafter or end up making a 10 in 1 prunus tree as art. But it would be extra work.
 
Ulla Bisgaard
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greg mosser wrote:can you get in there and actually see a spot where rootstock reaches past the scion? grafting could help, but i think it could be important to know what’s really going on there to begin with. a deep inspection in the fall after the leaves are gone could help. with pics, if you want help![/quote

I will wait until fall, and do that. Thank you for writing back so fast.

 
Ulla Bisgaard
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S Bengi wrote:If the hardy dwarfing rootstock is bearing fruits adnd you like the flavor. Then I think that you should just think of it as a multi-graft, cool fruit tree. I would 100% let it stay until the top half of the tree start bearing fruits. If you currently have a 2 in 1 apple tree now, and then you add yet another graft, wouldn't you end up with a 3 in 1 apple tree. There is nothing wrong with doing it, you might even end up becoming a professional grafter or end up making a 10 in 1 prunus tree as art. But it would be extra work.



We are only getting fruit on the lower 1/4 of the tree. The rest had hundreds of flowers, but no fruit. As I want and need fruit on the whole tree, I have a problem. I am fine with getting crap apples or something else, but I can’t live with no fruit.
We only have two apple trees, and the other is a dwarf. One isn’t enough fruit to get us through fall and winter, until we get citrus in February. The rest of the fruit we produce, can’t be stored fresh, and it’s nice to get some fresh fruit.
Because of this, I need to get this problem fixed.
 
S Bengi
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There might be multiple problems.
1) the top blossoms but doesn't bear, it might be too young or doesn't have a matching polinator that (A) have overlapping bloom time,  (B)matching triploid/diploid/etc dna, (C) good pollen. So you just need to get more apple trees

(2) The top of the might have gotten damaged (rabbit/rodent/machinery) and so it is sporting/suckering from the base. Or it could be that some borer/incest/fungus made its way into the tree

(3) It is technically possible that the blooms on the top part of the tree is also getting damaged by late frost. Do you think that might be the case.

You could just kill the non-producing top half and focus on just the bottom part, training it into a a tree. Another alternative could be that you have just invented a new bud-sport cultivar and so you could take a cutting of the producing part, root it and plant it over your garden, it seems to love your soil/climate?

Its also possible that you will just have to cull this tree? Are you okay with that which cultivar would you get instead.
 
Ulla Bisgaard
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S Bengi wrote:There might be multiple problems.
1) the top blossoms but doesn't bear, it might be too young or doesn't have a matching polinator that (A) have overlapping bloom time,  (B)matching triploid/diploid/etc dna, (C) good pollen

(2) The top of the might have gotten damaged (rabbit/rodent/machinery) and so it is sporting/suckering from the base. Or it could be that some borer/incest/fungus made its way into the tree

(3) It is technically that the blooms on the top part of the tree is also getting damaged by late frost?

You could just kill the non-producing top half and focus on just the bottom part, training it into a a tree. Another alternative could be that you have just invented a new bud-sport cultivar and so you could take a cutting of the producing part, root it and plan it over your garden, it seems to love your soil/climate?



The flowers did not get any frost LOL. We are in grow zone 10b, so we barely get any frost, and our last frost date was in March. I didn’t see any flowers on it until April, and those did set fruit. The top flowers bloomed late May, had plenty of pollinators around them (we host bee hives).
I think the growth are coming from the base, but Greg are right, that it’s impossible to see right now.
Strangely enough, most of the growth are from this year. It took me several years, convincing my husband, that we needed irrigation in the orchard, so it wasn’t put in, until this last winter. Then we had a very wet spring, and all of my trees exploded with growth.
My elderberry bushes has grown 6 feet this spring and summer, so almost doubled in size because of the water.
I was very happy when I saw all of the new growth, but I can see that the leaves are very different on the top compared to the bottom, and the flowers were different as well. This makes me conclude that something went wrong.
Once the apples we have on it, are ripe, I will see if I can get some better pictures of the bottom part of the tree.
I really hope we can fit it. The tree are at least 4 years old. I can’t recall precisely what year we planted  it in.
 
S Bengi
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Ahh, now that you mentioned it it could be that it is too warm for the top part of the apple to set fruit, maybe there isn't enough chill hours for it to fruit, even though it will not die.

I might have used the wrong word when I said pollinator, I didn't mean bees/insect. I meant another apple tree nearby that is blooming at the same time that has pollen that makes it to the blossom on your tree and thus fertilize the ovaries/egg/seed thus making a fruit. Very few apple trees are self-fertile. And so it will need another apple tree nearby, unless it is a 2-in-1 multigraft apple tree.

Which apple cultivars do you have? Do you have any tasty apple trees in your neighborhood that you would take a cutting from to root or graft? Which cultivar is it.

Zone 10b in Cali sound like 20chill hours.  
 
Ulla Bisgaard
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S Bengi wrote:Ahh, now that you mentioned it it could be that it is too warm for the top part of the apple to set fruit, maybe there isn't enough chill hours for it to fruit, even though it will not die.

I might have used the wrong word when I said pollinator, I didn't mean bees/insect. I meant another apple tree nearby that is blooming at the same time that has pollen that makes it to the blossom on your tree and thus fertilize the ovaries/egg/seed thus making a fruit. Very few apple trees are self-fertile. And so it will need another apple tree nearby, unless it is a 2-in-1 multigraft apple tree.

Which apple cultivars do you have? Do you have any tasty apple trees in your neighborhood that you would take a cutting from to root or graft? Which cultivar is it.

Zone 10b in Cali sound like 20chill hours.  


We have an Anna apple tree too, for pollination. As for chill hours. They got more than usual this year, since we had a cold winter. The bottom part has a lot of large apples on it, and the Anne also has a lot of apples, that are almost ready to pick. They are so sweet. So, I don’t think it’s the chill hours, unless what it was grafted on, needs more chill hours than what’s on the bottom part.
 
greg mosser
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if the big fruit-less part really is an eruption of the rootstock, that’s the one that likely requires more chill hours than you get. if that turns out to be the case, a bit of grafting should definitely get you apples up there.
 
Ulla Bisgaard
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greg mosser wrote:if the big fruit-less part really is an eruption of the rootstock, that’s the one that likely requires more chill hours than you get. if that turns out to be the case, a bit of grafting should definitely get you apples up there.



We are inland San Diego aka El Cajon. We get about 300-400 chill hours each year. This year, we were closer to the 400, since it was an exceptional cold winter. It was in fact, so cold, that my banana flowers didn’t make it. So, yes, we don’t get a lot of frost here.
So, maybe we need to pot this discussion on hold until fall. Once the leaves has fallen,  will take some pictures and try to figure out where what grows. My other Anna, a dwarf variety need some pruning, so maybe that can be used for grafting. I have never done any grafting though, so that will be a new experience for me. The dwarf Anna, gives us fruit every year, but this year a lot more than usual. Partly because it was colder, and partly because we finally got irrigation installed and we had a very wet spring.
 
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