Win a copy of Grocery Story this week in the City Repair forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • r ranson
  • Nicole Alderman
  • Anne Miller
stewards:
  • Mike Jay
  • paul wheaton
  • Joseph Lofthouse
garden masters:
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Steve Thorn
  • James Freyr
  • Greg Martin
  • Dave Burton
gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Dan Boone

Composting Toilet with Bidet ?

 
Posts: 17
Location: North Carolina
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Has anyone ever seen a composting toilet with a bidet fixture or other water fixture for personal cleansing purposes?

This might sound strange to some - but using dry toilet paper to "clean" with - is not really what I consider clean. Using a little soap and water is a lot nicer .....
 
author
Posts: 946
Location: 6200' westen slope of colorado, zone 6
67
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I totally agree with your preference for a bidet over toilet paper.

To your question, it is going to be problematic because you just cant put all that water into a compost toilet system.

If you want to get rustic, a hose works. Not really acceptable to your sanitary enforcement people, but cleans your backside nicely.
 
Posts: 187
Location: Southeastern Connecticut, USA
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Maybe a garden pump sprayer would work. I've seen ads for them as a camp shower. The pressure would let you use less water.
 
pollinator
Posts: 8354
Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada
657
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
A warm glass of water, poured into the hand as required is safer than those jet things and the temperature isn't a surprise every time. TP first, then the water.
 
Posts: 125
Location: Mansfield, Ohio Zone 5b percip 44"
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hey Lisa, I use a bidet toilet seat attachement that I bought on Amazon for about $30. It is currently hooked up to the water supply inside my house. My family loves it. We use much less toilet paper and it is more sanitary. I had the same idea about using it with a composting toilet. What you need to do is get a cheap garden tank sprayer for about $30 and remove the sprayer. Next just splice the two tubes together, or if your lucky the bidet tube will be the same size. A home depot should have the proper attachements. All you would have to do once assembled is attach the bidet to the composting toilet seat and make sure the tank has been pumped to build pressure in it. I experimented with mine a while back and it works fine. My plan was to use a urine divertor for just the urine to make sure it doesnt get too wet. The bidet water would fall into to the bucket. But the bidet really does not use that much water. My family does use a bit of toilet paper to dry off but you could hang a small towel for each member of your family to pat dry with. Another item I use is a squatty potty stool. All it is is a stool to help you get into a squatting position to help eliminate waste. My daughter had elimination problems and this helped alot. So I would definetly add some kind of pull out stool. I hope this doesn't sound gross but when you are able to completely eliminate quickly then there is less need for toilet paper or spraying.

I also think there is better options than toilet paper and the bidet has worked for us. I hope this helps.
 
Lisa X. Marie
Posts: 17
Location: North Carolina
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Adam Klaus wrote:I totally agree with your preference for a bidet over toilet paper.

To your question, it is going to be problematic because you just cant put all that water into a compost toilet system.

If you want to get rustic, a hose works. Not really acceptable to your sanitary enforcement people, but cleans your backside nicely.



Adam - I did not realize that putting water into the compost toilet system would be a problem. That is why I posted my question. However, the hose option sounds good - i guess as long as it does not drain into the compost toilet itself.
 
Lisa X. Marie
Posts: 17
Location: North Carolina
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Dale Hodgins wrote:A warm glass of water, poured into the hand as required is safer than those jet things and the temperature isn't a surprise every time. TP first, then the water.



Hey Dale - I agree. TP first and then water! That's the best way!!
 
Lisa X. Marie
Posts: 17
Location: North Carolina
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Adam Moore wrote:Hey Lisa, I use a bidet toilet seat attachement that I bought on Amazon for about $30. It is currently hooked up to the water supply inside my house. My family loves it. We use much less toilet paper and it is more sanitary. I had the same idea about using it with a composting toilet. What you need to do is get a cheap garden tank sprayer for about $30 and remove the sprayer. Next just splice the two tubes together, or if your lucky the bidet tube will be the same size. A home depot should have the proper attachements. All you would have to do once assembled is attach the bidet to the composting toilet seat and make sure the tank has been pumped to build pressure in it. I experimented with mine a while back and it works fine. My plan was to use a urine divertor for just the urine to make sure it doesnt get too wet. The bidet water would fall into to the bucket. But the bidet really does not use that much water. My family does use a bit of toilet paper to dry off but you could hang a small towel for each member of your family to pat dry with. Another item I use is a squatty potty stool. All it is is a stool to help you get into a squatting position to help eliminate waste. My daughter had elimination problems and this helped alot. So I would definetly add some kind of pull out stool. I hope this doesn't sound gross but when you are able to completely eliminate quickly then there is less need for toilet paper or spraying.

I also think there is better options than toilet paper and the bidet has worked for us. I hope this helps.

\

Adam -wow! These are great ideas. I thought I was the only one interested in bidets! It is such a cleaner and refreshing experience. And with a little liquid soap thrown in with some toilet paper - what else could you possibly want?? !!

Thanks for providing the instructions for building a compost bidet and sharing your experiences.

 
Adam Klaus
author
Posts: 946
Location: 6200' westen slope of colorado, zone 6
67
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Although Paul isnt a huge fan, do make sure to read Joseph Jenkins' Humanure Handbook. He will explain why any extra water in your humanure compost will be hugely problematic. This is why we divert urine from composting toilets, it is the water. Having used a composting toilet year round for five years, I really do not think that even a small amount of water from a bidet would be viable for your compost.

Using a urine diverter, that would work. The bidet water would dilute your urine, and you could then use that as is on non-edible plants. So long as freezing isnt a big concern, this should work great.
 
Bill McGee
Posts: 187
Location: Southeastern Connecticut, USA
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Adam, in my reading of Jenkins handbook and forums he is very opposed to urine diversion. The nitrogen in urine seems to be the key in thermophilic composting. My understanding of Jenkins bucket method is that the operator would add more dry cover (sawdust or straw) to adjust for moisture with the goal of keeping the pile hot. (you could also tarp the pile to keep rain off as needed.
Are we talking about a commercial composting toilet or Jenkins 5 gallon bucket and pile method?
 
Adam Moore
Posts: 125
Location: Mansfield, Ohio Zone 5b percip 44"
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Bill McGee wrote:Adam, in my reading of Jenkins handbook and forums he is very opposed to urine diversion. The nitrogen in urine seems to be the key in thermophilic composting. My understanding of Jenkins bucket method is that the operator would add more dry cover (sawdust or straw) to adjust for moisture with the goal of keeping the pile hot. (you could also tarp the pile to keep rain off as needed.
Are we talking about a commercial composting toilet or Jenkins 5 gallon bucket and pile method?



Hi Bill, I have only used the bucket method. I have never used one of the commercial toilets. I have seen it work both with urine and without. It seems people have had good or bad expierences with either method from what I have heard. My guess is that it has more to do with climate? Like in a desert one would probably have trouble keeping it moist etc. Maybe? Maybe with the excess water the bidet option would work better in a hole in the ground outhouse setup? I plan on experimenting more with the bidet at my next home. I have not acutally used one with a composting bucket yet. But I was successful at connecting it to the pressurized tank so that it could be used without city water pressure. I love my bidet that I use now and I can't imagine not having one when I move off grid someday. But I have made humanure compost fine without urine. It just seems to take longer but it does seem to stink less. I would rather use the urine now to fertilize my plants. I also use it on my NON humanure compost pile. It really speeds it up. I guess I consider the urine too valuable to waste on the humanure that I'm going to eventually just bury in the woodlot.

One thing I would NOT do is add the bidet water to the urine divertor. Remember that the reason for the bidet is to wash the feces off your bum. I definetly would not want feces water mixed into to the sterile urine because of what I use it for.

I should time myself and see how long I leave the bidet on when I use it. Then do it again but without sitting on the toilet so I could collect the water. That way I would have a better idea of how much water I would actually be adding to the compost. It never seems like I am using much water but I could be wrong.
 
Bill McGee
Posts: 187
Location: Southeastern Connecticut, USA
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks for sharing your experience. This is my first year doing humanure, using the bucket method. I've been reading how valuable urine is as a NPK fertilizer.

Great point that the bidet water is blackwater and shouldn't be diverted with the urine.

I use a spray bottle of water, it makes a wet wipe. Doesn't decrease toilet paper use though. I also use omick.net suggestion to spray TP in bucket so less cover material is used.
 
Adam Moore
Posts: 125
Location: Mansfield, Ohio Zone 5b percip 44"
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm sure they are correct Bill. To make quality, fast humanure compost it is best to leave the urine in. But how I look at it is, what am I going to do with that quality compost? I'm not comfortable using it on anything but the woodlot. So for me if it's just going to be used to make wood then I figure I could put the urine to better use. I guess it comes down to what your end goal for it is?
 
Bill McGee
Posts: 187
Location: Southeastern Connecticut, USA
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Agreed! Over time we are each responsible how we choose to use resources. "their's more than one way to skin a cat" (sorry cat lovers)
 
Adam Klaus
author
Posts: 946
Location: 6200' westen slope of colorado, zone 6
67
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
sorry i was unclear about jenkins' tech and the urine. what i meant is that water is a problem for the composting process. urine has lots of nitrogen that makes it a useful addition. but any extra liquid in the system is going to slow down the compost and push things towards anaerobic, which will be a mess. that concept, i thought, came from Jenkins' book, but it may have just come from my personal experience and i am misattributing it.

i live in an arid environment, and have used both a commercial sunmar composting toilet, and a 5 gallon bucket system. in both cases, too much moisture has always been the biggest problem for my humanure compost. i pee in the composter only about half of the time, otherwise it just gets to wet to stay full aerobic. ymmv.
 
Adam Moore
Posts: 125
Location: Mansfield, Ohio Zone 5b percip 44"
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Adam Klaus wrote:sorry i was unclear about jenkins' tech and the urine. what i meant is that water is a problem for the composting process. urine has lots of nitrogen that makes it a useful addition. but any extra liquid in the system is going to slow down the compost and push things towards anaerobic, which will be a mess. that concept, i thought, came from Jenkins' book, but it may have just come from my personal experience and i am misattributing it.

i live in an arid environment, and have used both a commercial sunmar composting toilet, and a 5 gallon bucket system. in both cases, too much moisture has always been the biggest problem for my humanure compost. i pee in the composter only about half of the time, otherwise it just gets to wet to stay full aerobic. ymmv.



So maybe adding a bidet would only work with an outhouse type configuration then? Dig a deep hole under a moveable outhouse and let the excess water seap into the earth?

Back to the bucket system though, what if two buckets with two toilet seats were used? One for the elimination and then scoot over to the second seat with the bidet and clean off. It would still be considered black water but maybe easier to dispose of in a covered hole dug in the woodlot somewhere? Just trying to think of ideas to make it work. Many times the bidet and toilet are two seperate fixtures anyways.

 
Bill McGee
Posts: 187
Location: Southeastern Connecticut, USA
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks. I'm just a beginner with humanure so your real experience is appreciated.

2 other thoughts on Lisa's bidet; I've seen people mention peri -bottles (given after childbirth?) or tap into the sinks water with the above mentioned hand held bidets (searched on amazon)
 
Lisa X. Marie
Posts: 17
Location: North Carolina
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Bill - It's been a while - but I do recall those peri-bottles...... I had almost forgotten about them. I currently use a similar item in my regular indoor toilet. I had not thought about this for an outdoor compost system. ~ Thanks for the great idea!
 
Lisa X. Marie
Posts: 17
Location: North Carolina
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

So maybe adding a bidet would only work with an outhouse type configuration then? Dig a deep hole under a moveable outhouse and let the excess water seap into the earth?

Back to the bucket system though, what if two buckets with two toilet seats were used? One for the elimination and then scoot over to the second seat with the bidet and clean off. It would still be considered black water but maybe easier to dispose of in a covered hole dug in the woodlot somewhere? Just trying to think of ideas to make it work. Many times the bidet and toilet are two separate fixtures anyways.



I really like this two bucket system with the compost toilet. And you are correct - I have seen very nice bidet systems in homes where the actual toilet is separate from the bidet unit. I cannot wait until I can experiment with this myself. ~Thanks for the tips!
 
Posts: 2
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Adam Klaus wrote:Although Paul isnt a huge fan, do make sure to read Joseph Jenkins' Humanure Handbook.  He will explain why any extra water in your humanure compost will be hugely problematic.  This is why we divert urine from composting toilets, it is the water.  Having used a composting toilet year round for five years, I really do not think that even a small amount of water from a bidet would be viable for your compost.

Using a urine diverter, that would work.  The bidet water would dilute your urine, and you could then use that as is on non-edible plants.  So long as freezing isn't a big concern, this should work great.



I use a portable bidet that is around a quart or less in size. You are suppose to use water to help with the composting process otherwise the little structure for keeping your straw or peat moss dry would extend over the compost sides. Instead, it is open so that rain can go through it. The only difference is with this adding water you will have to extend the cover in the center to all the structure and let the small amount of water you use each time take the place of rain. Common Sense here OK? Oh, Save that urine separately. It is liquid gold they say. Dilute it with water to water your plants as it is said to be loaded with Nitrogen. Suppose to make your plants grow faster and stronger and healthier? That was what I read anyway. Haven't done it myself yet.
 
Posts: 29
Location: Terlingua, TX
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Has anyone tried one of the EEDS designed ecosan pans or western style three hole units? Sounds like very good designs to me. I'd probably go with the three hole pan design since I prefer squatting over sitting.
 
Posts: 8
Location: Jackson County, Oregon
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My plan for my current house, post remodel, is the sawdust toilet next to the water toilet, with a bidet on the water toilet. So just hop over and use the bidet. Most of the nutrients stay in the compost, wash water goes to the septic tank, guests can use what they want.
 
Get me the mayor's office! I need to tell him about this tiny ad:
permaculture bootcamp - learn permaculture through a little hard work
https://permies.com/wiki/bootcamp
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!