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Wilow feeders questions - urine

 
Posts: 20
Location: Pubnico, Nova Scotia
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I haven't used the willow feeder but before I read Paul's method, I had designed a VERY similar system with buckets with the same 2-year period, but minus the willow part. I know about humanure, and have designed and used solar composting toilets (similar to Enviro-loo) and solar dehydrating/drying toilets (that use lime), so I combined these ideas to just dry the urine and compost the poop.

Re the willow feeder:
I am wondering... what happens with the urine exactly?

Here's a breakdown of the differences/similarities:

WILLOW                             MEADOW
Poo + carbon/dry material        Poo + sawdust
urine separated/diverted          urine separated via urine diverter
poo 2 yrs in bucket/can             poo 2 yrs in bucket
urine goes ________?                    urine into solar dehydrator*
poo dries out                              poo composts
2 yrs is willow feeder                 2 yrs is brush/bushes/tree fertilizer

*solar dehydrator is an outhouse with full window/door on south side (no overhang). Roof can be clear roofing panels. Inside, clear shelving or place to hang buckets, buckets painted black, no lids, buckets stacked or hung bottom to top inside "outhouse" pee-house, tall vent pipe installed (black pipe or painted black) up/out of roof with spinning cap. Can insulate if desired with rockwool. Can place reflective surface on interior walls, if desired. P-house acts as a kind of solar oven (similar to solar dehydrator), which heats up and evaporates the urine up and out the flu-vent. When bucket is empty, can clean or simply refill with 'fresh' urine and dehydrate it again. My design came about because greywater in Nova Scotia is not allowed for urine, so systems have to be completely contained or not released in any form into the environment at all. Same with poop. So this was my idea to deal with that. I think a better idea would be to allow urine to go into what looks like a single basin style distiller, except that it's designed solely for dehydrating urine directly rather than carrying buckets to an outhouse. Next idea is to not have to carry buckets of poop either and just let them move on rollers to the storage area through a compartment door. The bathroom, bucket system, and urine dehydrator are all part of one bathroom system. A third idea is to allow the buckets of poo to be heated as well, but that's not really composting, it's baking/dehydrating/drying out the poo, which creates chunks of poop rather than soil, so that sounds kind of gross. lol

Aside from my question above on what happens with the urine in the willow feeder, I would like to know how well others like the willow feeder too after using it for a while. I think it's a fantastic idea.

 
Posts: 151
Location: Huntsville, United States
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My comments from KS thread:  
I would like to see a good design and hopefully manufacture of the pee separating toilet seat as that is one of the tricky parts.  Tim Barker and I kicked around adding a separate bucket filled with activated charcoal for the toilet seat pee and the urinal.  Once that was all soaked in, we were going to use on garden or maybe sell bags of it at the Missoula farmers market as organic garden additive.
 
Meadow Cern
Posts: 20
Location: Pubnico, Nova Scotia
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Interesting idea about the charcoal; has it been tried and does it work?

I know that when we built and used a composting toilet back in the 90s that the urine separator/diverter was very easy to do. We used an upside down bleach bottle cut in half. That worked pretty good, but I think the toilet diverters they have today that go on a bucket or in a regular composting toilet are probably nicer. I think they are around $50+ manufactured.

Our biggest issue was the smell of the urine that collects in the diverter. We used a spray bottle full of bleach back then since the urine went to a grey water rock bed system, never to be seen again (this was when we lived out in the country in Nebraska), but today I would be more likely to use a spray bottle with half water and half vinegar in it to keep the scent down, plus it keeps it cleaner, is more environmentally, friendly, and the urine could be captured and USED for other purposes like you mentioned.
 
pollinator
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Location: Canadian Prairies - Zone 3b
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An old eavestrough at the front of the box, with a galvanized metal sheet feeding into it, can catch a good amount of the urine and divert it to a barrel of dry char. This reduces smell and does a crude charging/inoculation of the char -- win win to my mind.
 
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I'm finding information that Willow roots will grow 100 ft over time.  Destroy well pumps, other infrastructure elements.  The consensus seems to be 3x the height of the tree...

I'm ok because my first setup is on bedrock I can excavate 3-4' down and control the perimeter of Willow roots system...

Most of the homestead people on here also have plenty of acreage but a fair number of neophytes and newbies will be trying alternative living in less than five acres as times change coming up maybe in the near future

There is one Willow called dwarf Arctic I'm going to start with, at 4-6 ft growth pattern
 
Posts: 1039
Location: In the woods, West Coast USA
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I've got willows that grow like mad in just damp soil.  Feeding them would send them over the top.

One kind of willo I have eventually falls over, and unless it is cut up and removed, it triples itself in just a few months.  A storm snapped one of them into the pond water, which was at a high level at that time of year so we couldn't get to it to cut it out of there.  It grew shoots out the top and roots out the bottom in just a couple months it took the water to recede.  

Not to mention, when that tree went over, the roots came up in a huge solid mound about 3 feet high and 5 feet wide.  That causes trouble even at the edge of a pond, let alone near a house or shed foundation.  Even if the tree roots didn't get involved in a storm, big tree roots near a foundation is never a good situation.

And aren't willows near a water source?  A pond, a creek, ground water that animals or humans drink from?  You want years of sewage going into that ground water?

They are so much work just under a regular circumstance!





 
Bever Branson
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Thank you Cristo!
  This information is really helping me create a responsible site plan because I not only want to take care of only myself, but the neighbors the easements the future stewardship of the land for others after me.
  I have some fym horse manure I can practice the Arctic blue this summer before I take it to New Mexico in October.
 I can buy a niobe and keep it in a 3 ft wide container over winter, or a bigger water tote I have maybe.  The willows in the wild see here seem to spread but stay slender branches and not more than 6-8ft but mostly 4 ft tall.  So I could dig some and see if they will process humanure or urine
  I'm guessing 300-600 gallons of greywater and urine per month even in winter need to have someplace suitable to go.  Because. My bedrock will sluice it away down slope off site if I don't make really GOOD decisions now.
 
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