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Seeking to learn from a living model about: economics aligned with ecology  RSS feed

 
Robert Coville
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Location: Upstate NY; Zone 4/5
forest garden trees wofati
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Hello all! I'm a student of Natural Resource Management in NY, USA. I'm doing a small research project on economics and ecology. I am looking for an example of (an attempt at) economics being aligned with ecology so I can see how that may work in terms of real specific examples. In my experiences so far, permacultures and ecovillages are as close to this as it gets.

If anyone has any suggestions about such a place or tips for my search, please share. It would be much appreciated! I hope to communicate with folks involved and learn more about the specifics of how their community's economics are aligned with ecology from their perspective.

Peace
 
Thomas Onderlan
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Location: south texas
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Great. I have been going in that same direction myself, i.e. how to live on the land outside the boundaries of the current paradigm of economic thought. I would be interested to learn of your take on what parameters are involved in 'economics aligned with ecology'? Perhaps sharing our mutual thoughts may help the both of us to learn more
Thomas
PS. I am still (trying) to learn how to get around these 'forums?' and altho' I love what I read here, it is a daunting task for me to navigate through this technological wilderness of posts, replies, download, input, output, etc... I'm much more familiar with PTO, shovel, manure, dirt, soil and getting my hands dirty LOL!!
 
Robert Coville
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Location: Upstate NY; Zone 4/5
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I'm still working on it, but something just shared with me the other day that explained it pretty well is this short film:

 
Thomas Onderlan
Posts: 10
Location: south texas
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yes, I've seen that one and It is very good. I think a start in the right direction. I tried to look at it again but was having trouble 'loading' I think? Either way, from my memory, I vaguely remember thinking that it did not address one salient point which I believe is important. A stable medium of exchange. Trading directly, value for value, was/is the only solution I've come across to address that problem ( and like I said, I'm going on memory here after first watching the video from awhile back) All in all, a great start ...
 
Robert Coville
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Location: Upstate NY; Zone 4/5
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Thomas I agree with your memory that it doesn't address a stable medium of exchange. gift economy suggests direct trading I think, value for value. I have heard some suggest that using money is not so much a problem we need to get away from, just banks (and the two go hand in hand but for practical purposes, I agree, it doesn't seem like money is an obstacle if it is cash that can be exchanged like precious metal coins used to be prior to fiat currency). The evolution of currency is an interesting topic - you may be interested in this - I have yet to read this book yet but some family of mine who is very involved in economics recommended me a book your comment reminds me of: "The Ascent of Money: A Financial History of the World" by Niall Ferguson (the author's ugly opinions show in this book, says the person who shared this book with me, but the book still provides a well-informed overview on currency).

I think for now, trading is not a bad idea but paper fiat money doesn't need to be an evil thing either at least on the individual scale. As for a larger scale, this comes to mind:
"Natural economy refers to a type of economy in which money is not used in the transfer of resources among people. It is a system of allocating resources through direct bartering, entitlement by law, or sharing out according to traditional custom. In the more complex forms of natural economy, some goods may act as a referent for fair bartering, but generally currency plays only a small role in allocating resources. As a corollary, the majority of goods produced in a system of natural economy are not produced for the purpose of exchanging them, but for direct consumption by the producers (subsistence)." via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_economy
 
Miles Flansburg
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Not so much ecology but it really explains our currency.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Creature-Jekyll-Island-Federal/dp/0912986212
 
Thomas Onderlan
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Location: south texas
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Charles Eisenstein's video - finally got to see it through and I was absolutely wrong about the contents of his (Charles') video. I had confused it with another one I saw. Charles' video is spot on from my perspective at this time. BTW, I would direct you to a paper I ran across several years ago called, Silent weapons for a Silent War. Here's a link: http://www.iamsomedude.com/crash.html and here: http://www.iamsomedude.com/Silent%20Weapons%20for%20Quiet%20Wars.htm#eight
I think the latter one is the proper URL ;-(
Anyway, there is a rather enlightening (and pertinent to our discussion) thread partway down titled, 'Mr. Roth(s)child's Energy Discovery' which also gives some historical basis to our current paradigm of economics prevalent today, I think. Mr. Rothschild discovered that man's greedy nature would allow him to manipulate individuals and governments to the extent that he would be able to control whole economies, ultimately, by utilizing fiat currency. From another source I read awhile back, it is claimed that the Rothschild family owns ~66% of all the wealth of the world today. If that is true and fiat currency is the means whereby he obtained control over man and governments today, then it may be that fiat currency/paper currency, being controlled as it is by the (very) few would seem to be the means of control & enslavement of mankind today. The hook used to snare man with, of course, being his greed(y) nature as opposed to, say, giving nature. I will throw in one more variable? into the mix, as if there isn't enough already , and that is something which was instrumental in leading me to economics in general and economics aligned with ecology in particular and that is : "Freely you have received, freely give", a quote attributed to Yahuwshua aka Jesus and one which I have been grappling to understand and sort out in my (own) mind. When I first began thinking of that (seeming dichotomy from what I had been taught by conventional economics) phrase, it made no sense. After months of reflection and years of farming, I've realized that so much of what I was taught & trained, educated & schooled, programmed, brainwashed & dumbed down to believe in are not natural to plants, animals and the ecology. Nature (almost always?/always?) freely gives and freely receives. I think man is waking up presently and many of us are trying to find the truth of what is happening around us and how to reconcile, if not for the whole of economics as aligned with ecology, at least for the economics of our own financial world.
Where does the ultimate truth lie? Where will all of this lead each one of us? Is there enough time to get it back on track and how do we go about it? OOOPS!!! That's a discussion for the next symposium on economics and we'll have to take that one up in a later thread LOL!! Just joking around here although it is a serious subject to be sure
 
charlotte anthony
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I did not follow the thread before i wrote this.

Still I am posting as a practical approach to economic/ecology may be useful. Personally I have been practicing a gift economy for 10 years. To me you see what is needed in front of you and you do it. The universe provides for the rest.

While traveling in India I found a desperate situation. Because of desertification hundreds of thousands of farmers are not able to water their crops. There is a history of dry land farming here and the production is considerably lower than what they get with irrigation. They do not have the wealth to import much of their food as we do in the U.S. If we can demonstrate the changes that work, they will apply them.

Permaculture and natural farming are the perfect solutions. Some swales along key lines to capture the monsoon water, some deep rooted plants along key lines to hold that water (my invention) and their yields will increase significantly. By planting trees, along with some reservoirs, we will be able to significantly increase the local water table here.

This restorative agroforestry will prevent starvation in India and as the word gets out will impact desertification all over the earth, hopefully in central California. Our model is simple. We are inspiring especially the small (or subsistence farmers) to increase their yields with open pollinated seeds for vegetables and fruits and what they call country fruit and nut trees (not the new hybrids) and very low cost earthworks. The project does not need huge amounts of funding. The people who apply the solution are motivated because it makes them money.

We are creating a community here in Tamilnadu Inda, in the Theni District. The weather is ideal, between 65 and 85 all year around. Living in India is very inexpensive. Come and join us and contribute to a viable solution.
 
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