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Vertical mass heater for two floors  RSS feed

 
Posts: 2
Location: Loonbeek, Belgium
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Hi all,
I'm thinking of building a rmh as primary heating source in my house.
As a thermal battery, I would send the gasses through a vertical mass up a wall going to the second floor.

Would that give enough warmth to heat the two floors?
The battery should heat rooms on both sides of the wall. If I build the battery of bricks and cob on one side of it, would the wall itself function as a thermal battery to radiate in the other room?

Any remarks, suggestions?

Alexis
 
Posts: 243
Location: near Houston, TX; zone 8b
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If you want to go vertical, consider bells. Also, heat rises, so its much easier to heat the second floor.

Our designs utilize clay chimney flue liners rather than cob because we are using bells and chimney flue liners are designed to support their own weight. In order to create a cob shape of the same height, you would have to create an very large pile at the base. Clay chimney flue liners can't handle temperature changes greater than 50° per hour, so they have to be insulated by ceramic fiber blanket, dense fireclay bricks, or an inside layer of smaller flue liners.

If I build the battery of bricks and cob on one side of it, would the wall itself function as a thermal battery to radiate in the other room?


Of what is the wall made? Standard frame construction does not a good thermal battery make.

The blog in my signature has an article explaining the difference between bells & flues.
 
Posts: 52
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Cindy Mathieu wrote:If you want to go vertical, consider bells. Also, heat rises, so its much easier to heat the second floor.

Our designs utilize clay chimney flue liners rather than cob because we are using bells and chimney flue liners are designed to support their own weight. In order to create a cob shape of the same height, you would have to create an very large pile at the base. Clay chimney flue liners can't handle temperature changes greater than 50° per hour, so they have to be insulated by ceramic fiber blanket, dense fireclay bricks, or an inside layer of smaller flue liners.

If I build the battery of bricks and cob on one side of it, would the wall itself function as a thermal battery to radiate in the other room?


Of what is the wall made? Standard frame construction does not a good thermal battery make.

The blog in my signature has an article explaining the difference between bells & flues.


It looks to me like your 'vertical double bell' could grow into a wall. With the divider near the ceiling of the first floor it would help keep the heat downstairs. Sounds like a good solution to heating multiple rooms with radiant heat.
 
pollinator
Posts: 4154
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
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books fungi hugelkultur solar wofati woodworking
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Alexis Hamels : Welcome to Permies.com, our sister site Richsoil.com, and a big welcome to the Rocket and wood stoves Forums, look around, browse
as you will and share your ideas with your Fellow members.

Think of a Lodge with a large cathedral ceiling and a great big ''OX-Cooker'' Fire place !

Now think of the Size of the excavated hole below the original fire place construction ! This is where your wall will need to start to have the strength and necessary
support in your foundation to carry all the weight that you would need to pile, course after course of Cob and Stone, a lot of stone in the ground as foundation and
then your 1st floor of vertical Thermal storage needs to be capable of bearing all its weight, and be massive enough to handle the weight of the Thermal mass piled
on top of it ! This is definitely a job for a Master Mason and not to be considered as a good task for a first attempt by an amateur.

You can greatly reduce the amount of weight you need by substituting two bells as Thermal Energy storing and regulating units -one per floor. You will have to consider
the skill sets you bring to the task, and L@@K in your own area for people and workshops with cob and rocket stove construction (with the use of bells ).

Look at your posters name space, and L@@K at mine ! If you goto the top of the page, to the right of the Spinning Permies.com Sun is the Permies Toolbox, click on
My Profile and on the next page you will be helped to enter information that will allow your Fellow members to give you good answers relative to your location and
needs !

Who knows, it may help you make a connection with a near-neighbor with Cob / rocket mass heater RMH, Experience ! For the Good of the crafts ! Big AL













Ox Cooker Fire place !
 
gardener
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Location: Southern alps, on the French side of the french /italian border 5000ft high Southern alpine climate.
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Bob Jackson wrote:

Cindy Mathieu wrote:If you want to go vertical, consider bells. Also, heat rises, so its much easier to heat the second floor.

Our designs utilize clay chimney flue liners rather than cob because we are using bells and chimney flue liners are designed to support their own weight. In order to create a cob shape of the same height, you would have to create an very large pile at the base. Clay chimney flue liners can't handle temperature changes greater than 50° per hour, so they have to be insulated by ceramic fiber blanket, dense fireclay bricks, or an inside layer of smaller flue liners.

If I build the battery of bricks and cob on one side of it, would the wall itself function as a thermal battery to radiate in the other room?


Of what is the wall made? Standard frame construction does not a good thermal battery make.

The blog in my signature has an article explaining the difference between bells & flues.


It looks to me like your 'vertical double bell' could grow into a wall. With the divider near the ceiling of the first floor it would help keep the heat downstairs. Sounds like a good solution to heating multiple rooms with radiant heat.



http://heatkit.com/research/2009/lopez-rocket.htm
 
Alexis Hamels
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Location: Loonbeek, Belgium
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Thanks for all the answers so far.
It becomes clearer to me what I need to do.

I'll take the information to a local stove-builder and see what comes out of it.
The wall is made of red brick. I suppose it conducts the heat well, so that it radiates on both sides. That's what I wanted to make sure.

Another concern is how much fuel it would need. I definitly don't want to have to feed it all day long.

As a nice first job, I should problably best build a small standard rocket stove and experiment with it. I can see that now.

 
allen lumley
pollinator
Posts: 4154
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
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books fungi hugelkultur solar wofati woodworking
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Alexis Hamels : 1st your English is Excellent ! Having said that you may wish to contact the People at rocketstoves.com Who have a brand new third edition
of "The Book'' Rocket Mass Heaters ! It is my understanding that they cn help you with German, French and Spanish versions if you thing better in your native
tongue !

Finally, You Are looking to build a rocket mass heater RMH, and not a Rocket stove, which is where the RMH comes from and is a simple wood fired cook stove for
use out of doors !

I hope this is timely and useful ! For the good of the crafts ! Big AL !
 
Bob Jackson
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Alexis Hamels wrote:Thanks for all the answers so far.
It becomes clearer to me what I need to do.

I'll take the information to a local stove-builder and see what comes out of it.
The wall is made of red brick. I suppose it conducts the heat well, so that it radiates on both sides. That's what I wanted to make sure.

Another concern is how much fuel it would need. I definitly don't want to have to feed it all day long.

As a nice first job, I should problably best build a small standard rocket stove and experiment with it. I can see that now.

Consider - the smaller the rocket, the more time it'll have to burn. And smaller rockets take more tending.

ETA: I wrote that thinking you meant 'small ... rocket stove' feeding the bell/wall, but on rereading I guess that's not what you meant.
 
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