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Low Energy Aquaponics - LEAP

 
Posts: 1502
Location: Chihuahua Desert
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Frank, my statement still stands.

Show me a pump that can pump 1200 lph for 5 watts for under $50.

Not only was it easy to construct, it outperforms anything else you can get at that power level. So, while the efficiency on paper looks bad, every other pump in that class is significantly worse (even using the manufacturers data)
 
Posts: 31
Location: De Pinte, Belgium
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Abe,
it annoys me a bit that you are not even starting to show the first signs of wavering

I wonder why I go through all the trouble of trying to elaborately explain to people who desperately seem to hang on to their belief
some kind of masochism, I suppose
or might it be idealism ?

so be it, I've been there before,
in every discussion, on every forum where I -always patiently and politely- tried to convince people who apparently resent being convinced
many, many times,

so far all wasted efforts
got bashed for it, even thrown out of forums

still the myth of airlifts is as vivid as ever

I could give you a list of pumps that perform better, they are in my calculators
probably under $ 50, though price is only relevant in view of performance

I did not note the price in an extra column for pumps that are of no relevance to me, excuse me for that
you would have to put in the investigation time yourself, as I have done for years

but give me a week or so:
I have just today ordered this item:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Resun-wave-maker-4000-pump-for-nano-mini-marine-coral-aquarium-tank-220V-240V-/270922974758?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f14448626
this model allows for fixing a pipe on the exit

6 watts,
US $ 10.79 + shipping cost US $ 10 for the first, US $ 8 for all extra, say less than US $ 20
after bargaining with the supplier I got a discount of US $ 42 on shipping costs for an order of 15 pcs
so my unit price is less than US $ 16.50

US $ 50 / US $ 16.5 / = 3.0303, a staggering 303 % cheaper than your proposition

numbers don't lie

And I do not have to construct anything:
only connect a pipe sticking 2" above water surface plus an elbow,
say 5 minutes work
60 minutes / 5 minutes = 12, a staggering 1200 % less labour than what is needed to construct your ideal airlift pump

I would almost bet my life that, exit of the pump facing straight up,
this pump is going to do MUCH better than any yet found in AP, even by me

but I am not yet suicidal, grin
and my main motto is: "meten is weten", "to measure is to know"

so I will stick to that which I can see with my own eyes,
at least untill I have done the tests

for I still might be wrong

Frank
 
Posts: 3366
Location: Kansas Zone 6a
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Run the same test as run with the airpumps on the BYAP site--build it with 2-4 inches of lift and measure output and watts used. Then repeat it with a higher lift. Then do the same thing after 6 months of use in a real tank. Remember you have to be able to suck the solids up off the bottom and get them to the growbed, that may mean building a housing for your prop pump (inverted bucket).

We are all for better answers, but they need to be real-world answers.

 
Abe Connally
Posts: 1502
Location: Chihuahua Desert
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yes Frank, do let us know how that wave pump will achieve 2" head and at what rate.

I've seen these test before, but I'll let you do them and report back to us.
 
master pollinator
Posts: 2810
Location: Toronto, Ontario
311
bee dog forest garden fungi homestead hugelkultur cooking rabbit trees urban wofati
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Hi everyone,

Abe, good to see you're still working angles for us all.

Frank, it is really good to know that there are skilled, educated people like you and Abe with critical thinking and analysis skills working in this area.

I am fully on board with the comment about oxygen being the ultimate limiting factor, and that in many cases, energy efficiency is, at best, an academic curiosity. Don't get me wrong; permaculture as a whole to my mind is about systems efficiency, but there is also the balance necessary between efficiency and adequacy for the purpose (i.e., the system is supposed to feed people, and so needs a sufficient stocking rate/output for that purpose, to which efficiency needs to be (perhaps a close) second).

Also, I think situation is also very important to consider. I live in a two-and-a-half storey semi-detached in Toronto. I have three stories of drop to my back yard (potential for gravity-driven aeration), and the potential for storage tanks (or greenwater tanks for feed to lower levels) on roofs at three different levels. The fact that there is a weight restriction on the tanks on the roofs does dictate their function, but that works for me.

LEAP and greenwater hydroponics are very important parts of these types of systems, but there are situational variables that will change what is best; LEAP would be crucial if there is no natural or existing height difference between top and bottom of system, but in hilly country, the considerations would necessarily be different. I can see where LEAP can help to optimise energy efficiency where necessary, which makes it a very valuable tool.

Thanks guys!

-CK
 
Chris Kott
master pollinator
Posts: 2810
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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By the way, I am currently tryi g to find a cheap, green, domestically made electric trolling motor that I can enclose in an appropriately sized tubing. How do you guys figure that would do?
 
Posts: 124
Location: Puget Sound
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Frank De Block-Burij wrote:Abe,

it is like in any other love story: confidence is a very nice thing, but checking is often better

so sorry to disappoint you:

pump effect (in kW) = head (in kg/cm²) * flow@head (in l/min) / 600
pump efficiency= pump effect / energy input

I only checked the first link: http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=11703
2" = 0.051 m
head = 0.0051 kg/cm²
flow@head = 1200l/h = 20 l/min
energy input = 5 watt hr

pump effect = 0.0051 kg/cm² * 20 l/min / 600 = 0.00017 kW = 0.17 watt
pump efficiency = 0.17 watt / 5 watt = 0.034 = 3.40 %

this in your impression "efficient" airlift pump wastes 96.6 % energy
it is not worthy of your confidence nor of your love

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer

Frank



Frank, rather than arguing about the number of teeth on a camel without looking. It would seem you would provide a link to other types of pumps that can move more than 1200L per hour using five watts or less. So, could you please show one to me, I would be very interested. Thanks in advance.
 
Chris Kott
master pollinator
Posts: 2810
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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bee dog forest garden fungi homestead hugelkultur cooking rabbit trees urban wofati
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Hey all. I'm starting a trial aquaponics setup in my backyard. The details and information on my whole gardening situation is being posted here:

http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/list/24218#194375

I would appreciate any help.

EDIT: More details here:

http://www.permies.com/t/23958/aquaponics/Urban-Aquaculture-building-project

-CK
 
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