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ponds

Natural swimming pools and airlift pumps

Posts: 23

Location: Spain

posted 10 years ago

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Subject; 121 – Natural Swimming Pools Part 1 PODCAST

Hi guys,

Concerning the use of bubblers in natural swimming pools, Paul's guest in the podast says she isn't convinced about the effectiveness of the bubblers as pumping devices. Paul expresses the same concern. They are missing something here: bublers function as airlift pumps, and can be very effective and powerful if the air flow is driven up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airlift_pump
Air lift pumps are used a lot in water treatment plants, they move the full flow of the plant (albeit on small heights) and are incredibly simple and reliable. Using air lift pump technology that dubbles as a bubbler is an_excellent_technical solution, i.m.h.o.

Abe Connally

Posts: 1502

Location: Chihuahua Desert

posted 10 years ago

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well, they obviously don't know much on the subject, because airlift pumps, at small head, are some of the most efficient water pumps around. Not only are they effective, they are very efficient in terms of energy.

320 gallons per hour on 5 watts. Show me another water pump that can do that for $40 and can be built yourself.

If you want to know how to move water in efficient ways, talk to an aquaculturist, not a permaculturist.

Some of the Koi forums have excellent stuff on airlifts. Go over here: http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11704 adn read through everything related to airlifts. There are calculators, research papers, examples, tests, etc.

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Abe Connally

Posts: 1502

Location: Chihuahua Desert

posted 10 years ago

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you don't need high pressure air for an airlift. The key with airlifts is the depth of the air line compared to the lift. Usually a ratio of 4:1 does well.

The airlift I mentioned earlier (320 gallons per hour on 5 watts) is using air at about 1.5 psi.

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David Pagan Butler

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Posts: 31

posted 9 years ago

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Air lift pumps are ideally suited to pools that require a large amount of water to be circulated at low pressure using very little energy. They have been used for years in fish farming and dredging. The application to Natural Swimming Pools is a novel but natural place for them. They are no good for powering fountains, but hey... what are we trying to achieve? A pool for swimming or the water gardens of Palais de Versailles?

Hi I’m David. I am probably the only person to have two Organic Pools (aka Natural Swimming Pools). The reason for this over indulgence was to make a DIY film of the process. Loads of these pools have been made all over the place, helping make the world slightly wetter, pond by pond. I have also made a short film for the BBC about Natural Swimming Pools introducing the concept to a wider audience here in the UK. As a consequence of all of this, I have started giving courses to fellow self-builders who have traveled from far and wide to come and sit in my garden and talk about pools and ponds for two days. What could be nicer?
David Pagan Butler organicpools.co.uk

Kevin Franck

Posts: 92

Location: Göteborg Sweden

posted 9 years ago

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Frere Daran wrote:Subject; 121 – Natural Swimming Pools Part 1 PODCAST

Hi guys,

Concerning the use of bubblers in natural swimming pools, Paul's guest in the podast says she isn't convinced about the effectiveness of the bubblers as pumping devices. Paul expresses the same concern. They are missing something here: bublers function as airlift pumps, and can be very effective and powerful if the air flow is driven up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airlift_pump
Air lift pumps are used a lot in water treatment plants, they move the full flow of the plant (albeit on small heights) and are incredibly simple and reliable. Using air lift pump technology that dubbles as a bubbler is an_excellent_technical solution, i.m.h.o.

It's really a beautiful subject. If I was to have a pool, I would definitely go the natural swimming pond route. I found some info on "Inspiration Green" website. I did a post on it, but included a number of other subjects they go into. I love their references at the bottom of their pages as well. Here's a link to the article and website.

Inspiration Green: Natural Pools and Swimming Ponds

-

Tony Thomas

Posts: 16

Location: boise, idaho

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posted 9 years ago

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Wow. I love the idea of natural swimming pools. I plan to build one and I am really excited about the air lift concepts being shared here. There is so much to learn. Maybe if I'm lucky I can jump start my learning by winning the promo for one of David's DVD

tony.

David Pagan Butler

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Posts: 31

posted 9 years ago

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Hi Tony,
It's lovely to hear such a response to my Natural Pools and airlift ideas!

Thomas Tipton

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Posts: 237

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posted 1 month ago

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Presently in the planning phase for a monolithic pour, ICF (Insulated Concrete Form) natural swimming pool. I think the modular style insulated forms lend themselves well to building a swimming pool, as many have been done. Although I am not aware of any Natural ICF pools, I don't see why they would not work. The ICF also has the added benefit of being an insulator, so the pool will be protected from the heatsink of the Earth. ICF also has the advantage of the channel in between the two walls of the form that permit the introduction of PVC for the bubble lifts as well as any wiring or lighting one might wish to install.

I also intend to use fiberglass composite rebar in the structure so as to avoid any potential problems from rust causing the rebar to swell and crack the concrete. The interesting part about the monolithic pour is that the walls and floor of the pool are poured in one go, meaning that there is no cold-joint that might cause a leak in the future. I do not think I will be using a liner, but will opt for some sort of conventional black coating over the foam ICF walls.

David has been a great resource in this design quest. I hope I can succeed in taking this to the next level.

Thanks David.

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