Three Sisters Year 4

Ac Baker wrote:This is so fascinating. "Do what you find works for you" is great advice.

I was wondering, what's your latitude?

I think we are too far polewards (N for us) for Three Sisters.  Plus we have too many visiting badgers for sweetcorn or maize.

But I'm still intrigued by your polyculture with volunteers, rather than rotated monocropping.

Best of luck.

42.12722° N
Where are you? The high latitudes get longer summer days, so with seed adapted to the latitude, it might work.

Animals are a problem. My beekeeper friends up north build some impressive fences, then electrify them.

Maiz Morado, supposedly originated in the high Andes. It sprouts and seems to have good germination rates. Interested to see if it handles the day length here. I tried seeds from Guatemala once and they grew and grew, taller and taller but never set tassels or ears.

Volunteer pumpkin. Halloween pumpkins got tossed out and a mess of them grew, all tangled up together. I eliminated the excess.
Seeing various volunteers already. Beans, a tomato, sunflowers, marigolds.

Getting ready for transplants. Watermelon.
The watermelon is purchased seed. I had seeds saved year after year descended from Moon and Stars mixed with various other seeds. A few years ago I had complete crop failure, then what few seeds I had left failed last year, so I had to buy seeds. Sad.

And cantaloupe. I plant lots and lots of cantaloupe and save seeds from anything good. It's a weird mix of types. Some seeds go right in the ground, others in pots. Both ways seem to work.

Current garden, lots of weeds. Very dry. I recorded 7 inches rain in April, but only 8/10" in May. And very little rain in the forecast for the coming week. Surprisingly, things are sprouting, corn, beans, a few cantaloupe and squash. Working on covering the hills with mulches and removing weeds that are too close to the corn hills.

Some common weeds:
I use the plant.net app.
Common pennycress, Thlaspi arvense
This one is very common in the spring garden. It grows 1-2 feet tall and is easily pulled by hand. I use it for mulch.

Lactuca serriola, prickly lettuce. This one develops a deep tap root and grows 3-4 feet tall. To remove it requires a shovel and getting the tap root out. I pull when young and cut off just below the soil surface when older. It quickly grows back. Makes a useful mulch, like dandelion it can be cut many times over the season for more mulch. I try to remove it if it is close to the corn hills, otherwise let it grow back for a reusable mulch plant.
Pic shows whole plant including tap root.

Tragopogon dubius, Yellow Salsify.
Deep roots, very difficult to remove. Same as above, I mostly just cut it out at soil level and it regrows.
There are lots more, I may post more weeds as time permits. I keep the corn hills pretty clean of weeds, but don't worry too much about the gaps between the hills except to remove or cut back taller weeds that shade the crops. When the corn is taller most everything will get covered with hay mulch anyway.

2 hoes I use. The slimmer hoe with 2 supports is one I used a a child 50-60 years ago. I appropriated it when my folks got too old to garden. My favorite, very light and easy to use and the slim blade is convenient for close weeding. I keep it sharp. The handle is, obviously, home made from a mulberry branch. At about 3 feet long and slim, it is perfect for one-handed use. I like a short handle a lot better than the long handles on most hoes you see.

The other one I found in my father's tool shed and made a handle for last week from a peach branch. I'll probably slim down that handle quite a bit but it worked Okay. About 4 feet long. I think my dad used it for working cement. Anyway it was caked with cement when I found it. My dad passed away a year ago and I have been gradually clearing out his tools. I use this one when I need to move dirt around, hilling the corn.

Corn, bean and cantaloupe. A bit too close together; eventually I'll decide which to pull out.

Some volunteers:
Surprised the potato survived the winter freeze. They usually don't.

Tobacco. Comes back every year.

Lottsa beans

Ac Baker — I'm around 30°N and even here the corn needs a decent run of warm nights to really get going. Badgers would be a nightmare for sweetcorn, that's a tough one. Beans and squash on their own still work well as a duo if the corn isn't viable where you are.

My corns are growing quickly and the space is filling up. They are quite uneven, some are 2 ft tall and a few are half the size. I planted a second batch of corns in a different spot and some squash seeds somewhere else. My soil isn't fertile enough to support all three sisters, or even two continuously. In one spot I grew squashes for two years and corn with bean in a third year (amended with compost every time), it was still so exhausted that stilt grasses took over afterwards. Thom you have amazing soil and great stewardship in your garden.

May Lotito wrote:My corns are growing quickly and the space is filling up. They are quite uneven, some are 2 ft tall and a few are half the size. I planted a second batch of corns in a different spot and some squash seeds somewhere else. My soil isn't fertile enough to support all three sisters, or even two continuously. In one spot I grew squashes for two years and corn with bean in a third year (amended with compost every time), it was still so exhausted that stilt grasses took over afterwards. Thom you have amazing soil and great stewardship in your garden.

And I envy you your seasons! With no rain since planting (a few tenths) I am happy to even see sprouts right now. Tallest is maybe 4 inches and lots is just one.

Do you have a fixed fallow schedule?

My hope is that by covering the garden with a variety of species I can avoid most nutrient loss issues. I have harvested and taken away permanently 400 pounds of corn in the last two years. According to the University of Illinois,  that works out to about 36 pounds of phosphorous lost per acre, for example.

https://extension.illinois.edu/crops/soil-phosphorus

I have no idea how much rock weathering replaces yearly or what the base rock contains. Parts of the garden were in use since 2006 and I added about half that much area again since about 2020. Prior to 3 years ago I often added NPK fertilizer but wasn't removing large amounts of produce. It's a mixed bag as far as reserves. And it gets mulched every year so that added some.

There are huge arguments among historians and archaeologists about how long lands worked the way I am trying to replicate could be farmed. The old view is that Indians rotated fields every few years and had rapid declines in productivity. Other scholars claim this method preserves soil fertility and fields were used up to 50 years continuously. No one knows or agrees about how North American Indians treated their soils, if they used fallows or mulches or fertilizers. It's a big argument in the literature, and the competing scholars get pretty surprisingly nasty about it in dueling papers.

I lean towards the view that Indian ladies were as smart as modern people, as observant, and had hundreds to thousands of years of accumulated knowledge and practice to lean on. So I figure they found ways to keep fields fertile.

I use mulch, ash and charcoal, soil carried in and dumped on the poorest hills.

I also allow many weeds and volunteer 'crops' to fill in the inter-row spaces. Hopefully drawing up deep soil nutrients. Dandelions, clovers, dock, brassicas, sunflowers, tobacco, oats and rye, beans and squash and melons etc. I lose some immediate corn production through water and nutrient competition, but hope it averages out in the long run with better soil quality.

The local hybrid corn. That stuff is tough! It was planted about the same time I planted my corn, and shows no visible signs of drought. Nice and perky even at noon. This is the field immediately east of my garden. We trade pollen Though I do attempt to remove the obvious crosses, without a doubt there is a large amount of hybrid genetics in my corn.
The farmer is pretty good by my standards. He plants cover crops, rotates crops yearly, and limits insecticide use (not eliminates, but limits).

Thom Bri wrote:
Do you have a fixed fallow schedule?

So far my use of land isn't cyclic but just one way: when the fertility drops, I grow perennial bushes and trees. I guess that just delay the issues for a few years because after the perennials start fruiting, they are quickly going downhill. I am working on bringing these plants back to health first and growing annuals less intensively. Here is last year's 3 sister patch let go wild with a persimmon tree and a dozen garlic bulbs.

That 22 days vs 9 days comparison is a good lesson. Cold soil just stalls everything and you end up with weaker plants than if you'd waited. I've found the same with corn, planting into actually warm soil makes a bigger difference than getting a head start on the calendar.

Joao Winckler wrote:That 22 days vs 9 days comparison is a good lesson. Cold soil just stalls everything and you end up with weaker plants than if you'd waited. I've found the same with corn, planting into actually warm soil makes a bigger difference than getting a head start on the calendar.

Some luck involved. Plant early and you get a warm spell and it looks like genius. This year it was a lot of wasted seeds!

Good day in the garden! We got some rain overnight. I dreamed of a thunderstorm and woke up and it was true! One gauge said  6/10" and another said 1 inch. We need a lot more but everything looked so great today. Weather report gives at least chances of rain for the next 5 days.

Sweet corn is really starting to grow. The rows look ragged because I replanted everything and some of both plantings is growing. Very irregular. I also planted a few new rows this week, 2 rows today, mixed varieties. Still hoping for a long sweet corn season.

Planted a few watermelons today. In spots where squash failed to sprout.

I've on my second attempt. I can say from experience that Haybales are not optimum.  Starting in July in Zone 7b is not optimum. Starting in July and doing 3 staggered plantings is not optimum. But I still got a tiny proof of concept harvest.

This year is better.  It's a over engineered hobby garden with high mounds and irrigation in a deer cage and is going well.

I've got 2 questions.

The first, which is why I checked in at the forum, is whether it is possible to get Daikon radishes started  under the corn early enough to get 60 days before a hard freeze?

I was planning on letting the corn dry on the plants into the fall, but will need to plant the Diakons in early September.

Any thoughts?

Second question is about Tobacco, which I saw mentioned as an "incidental"

I was looking into growing some this year but came across references saying keep it away from your vegetable garden.

"Buffalobird-Woman" was not a fan of tabbaco in the garden, and theres lots of references about  planting tomatoes and tobacco together being a bad idea.  We have a bunch of tomatoes in the garden, so that nixed the idea for me.

Any thoughts?

j glenn wrote:

I've got 2 questions.

The first, which is why I checked in at the forum, is whether it is possible to get Daikon radishes started  under the corn early enough to get 60 days before a hard freeze?

I was planning on letting the corn dry on the plants into the fall, but will need to plant the Diakons in early September.

Any thoughts?

Second question is about Tobacco, which I saw mentioned as an "incidental"

I was looking into growing some this year but came across references saying keep it away from your vegetable garden.

"Buffalobird-Woman" was not a fan of tabbaco in the garden, and theres lots of references about  planting tomatoes and tobacco together being a bad idea.  We have a bunch of tomatoes in the garden, so that nixed the idea for me.

Any thoughts?

Re daikon. I think you might be Okay with corn if you use wide spacing between the corn rows. Corn planted densely blocks most of the sunlight.

Re tobacco. Buffalo Bird Woman planted the lady's garden. Men planted tobacco. Problem with tobacco is it is a huge plant. One tobacco plant takes up the space of one hill of corn and completely shades the ground for 4-5 feet  out from the base of the plant.

Potatoes, tomatoes, tobacco and petunias are all fairly closely related. I suppose it is possible there might be bugs or diseases in common. I have never noticed a problem. Lots of tobacco, tomatoes and potatoes right on top of each other year after year.

Another inch and 3/10 rain. Garden looks good. Corn is getting tall enough to permit hilling. Spent a few minutes today thinning excess corn plants. Hoping to see lots of squash and cantaloupe sprouts this week.

Big storms, knocked a plum tree in the back yard right down! Another inch and 3/10ths yesterday, probably the same again or more today. More rain in 3 days than in all of May. Just over 1 inch in May. So everything is starting to look nice again, grass is returning to green, gardens look good.

The conventional field-no till, with herbicides etc., contrasted with my corn in hills. Both actually look good right now. I had to replant a bunch of hills but most of them have good sprouts growing now.

I have thinned the hills down to 3 or 4 plants per hill. I have found that more plants than that and I end up with lots of barren stalks or stalks that grow poorly.

Tallest corn is about knee-high. Looking pretty good. 2 inches and 3/10 a few days ago so we are doing well.
I found a group of tomato volunteers today and spread them out around the garden. Took several pics of various plants growing.

Spread radish and turnip seeds around near the squash plants. In theory they will confuse the squash bugs and protect the plants. Some are growing but I'd like a lot more.

In my home garden there are lots of semi-wild brassicas, descendants of all the various things I have planted in past years, arugula, broccoli and I honestly don't know what all the others are. We eat the leaves. Some are very strong and mustardy tasting. Anyway they are all flowering and setting seeds now. My plan is to collect lots of seeds and just scatter them around all the squash plants, hoping they will help protect them.
Killed the first squash bug of the season today, and a few egg clusters.

Scattered lots and lots of flower seeds around the garden as well. Mostly marigolds but also some cone flowers. Seeing a fair number of sprouts.

Sunflower volunteer

Near the garden I found this amazing mulberry tree. I have never seen a mulberry this loaded. Sadly, they were bland.
A whole large tree covered like this.

All right of my Montana morado corns are silking. I guess since the variety was bred for fast maturing in a shorter season, they respond too well to heat and humidity. Maybe I should plant them even earlier in cold soil. We received two episodes of intense rainfalls recently, 3.75" and 6" each within a 24 hr period. Every time I scattered a bit of grass clippings/ compost/ chop and drop ahead of time to mitigate nutrient leaching. So far the Inca giant corns are looking similar to bloody butchers. I am wondering how tall they will end up being.

May Lotito wrote:...All right of my Montana morado corns are silking. I guess since the variety was bred for fast maturing in a shorter season, they respond too well to heat and humidity.

So far the Inca giant corns are looking similar to bloody butchers. I am wondering how tall they will end up being...

Wow! It's early. So I was out on the garden yesterday and fortunately had my camera handy. See what my Mountain Morado is doing. It's barely a foot tall and ALREADY TASSELING! The whole row. Clearly not latitude adapted to my zone. I wonder if it will produce anything at all. Unless it really comes along I doubt it will be worth adding into my other crop since that would require staggered planting times.

The Maize Morado on the other hand is the same height but not tasseling at all yet. The two varieties are supposed to be descended from the same source so I wonder what the difference is.

More flowers. Some kind of cone flower. Seeds were saved last fall and scattered widely around the garden. Hopefully won't compete with the corn too much.

I counted the number of leaves on Montana mountain corns and they on average have 10 leaves only: two ear leaves in the middle, 4 below and 4 above to tassel. Hybrid corns can have 20 leaves, thus require a long growing season and produce bigger ears as well. The Montana morado corn is good for regions with growing season from June to September only.  I also find this morado corn useful to fit between two cool season crops in intensive gardening when space is limited. The second batch I planted was following potato (harvested in late May) and there will be daikon or bok choy in place when it is done in August.

ETA. Another powerful storm came by and snapped two of the Inca giant stalks. I took the opportunity to check the growing tips. Tassels are formed after leaf 18! Good to know they won't grow indefinitely.

Pics from the last few days in the gardens. First, some buggy talks. Boring insects lay eggs and their worms eat right down the stalk, ruining the most important area, that makes the ears and tassels. This appears to be usually on the main stalk and rarely seen on the suckers. What I do is cut the stalk below the damage and squash the worm. Hopefully the secondary stalks will fill in and produce some ears. If a hill already has 3 or 4 healthy stalks growing I simply pull the whole stalk out roots and all. Pretty frequently see worm damage on stalks that have already been browsed on by deer, but often enough see it on otherwise intact plants.

Pic of the poorest hill and a good hill. Some hills had to be replanted if germination failed or something ate the baby plants, so the poor hills are mostly just delayed. On the other hand one area of the garden always has lots of poor hills. The soil is thin over limestone gravel that was laid down when this was a cow lot. When I used fertilizers this area also produced well, but without fertilizers it's poorer. I am gradually building up the corn hills with more dirt so eventually it should get better.

Some 'mulch' ready to harvest. Love mallow. It grows everywhere, very vigorously, with a deep tap-root. If I am careful I can get the whole plant plus root. Leave the root and a week later it looks fine growing like crazy. This whole patch is between tworows of hills. Today it all got harvested to cover the hills. Temps are supposed to be high this week, 90sF (30+ c) so I want the hills well mulched in advance. Fortunately rain has been great this month, 8 inches in June, so the crops should tolerate it just fine.

At the back is a potato plant flowering. Potatoes look pretty good this year too. I plant them between the corn hills, so the soil is poor, all the good stuff scraped off to make the corn hills, then packed hard by walking on it. But the potatoes seem to do well anyway. I generally plant whole potatoes rather than cutting chunks unless it is huge. Cut potatoes get more diseases so I have read. I bought one bag of seed potatoes and also got a deal on some green, sprouting potatoes at the local Aldi. The manager agreed she couldn't sell them green so she offered me half price.

This one is funny. It's the 'Mountain Morado' corn from Baker Creek. I planted half a row of this stuff, on 5/9/26. That's 50 days. It's making ears and pollinating already! Tallest is about 3-4 feet tall, about 1 meter. Also, almost every plant looks nutrient deficient, striped or yellow leaves. Very interested to see if it produces much in the way of ears. Not blaming the seller; I knew going in that it was an exotic that might not be well-adapted to my zone. As Mary mentioned above, it might work well if you wanted a very short-season crop.

With my usual corn I will start seeing the tips of the first tassels at about 55 days.