Rufus Laggren wrote:...To me the hybrid, mutant, amalgamation is necessary to all life. It's evolution. The way of things, always...Tradition has to evolve. The traditions you have studied evolved from earlier ones.
Rufus Laggren wrote:Using utility poles as posts probably (almost surely, I think) makes most permies cringe - so many chemicals to make them, products of heavy industries, corporate byproduct, etc... But.
Rufus Laggren wrote:> w/out ...proven traditions
1) Most people will need to substitute materials -
2) Most people will not be able to implement the _full_ traditional system. Systems need all their expected parts to act as expected.
Rufus Laggren wrote:We need to develop "traditions" based on past knowledge but using the materials and meeting the constraints of our present environment.
Rufus Laggren wrote: I'm saying most people won't be able to effectively realize traditional systems in the original form and because of that the characteristics of _their_ system, whatever it may be, do not have the support of the many years of testing and success the original has. The line of inheritance needs to be developed and tested so that it becomes a reliable next generation of a tradition. Presently it looks to me like we are in the testing phase more than anything else.
The point is the Traditional Building is not like falling off a log. It is in fact extremely challenging in every way.
Vernacular architecture (a.k.a traditional building) is a category of architecture based on localized needs and construction materials, and reflecting local traditions. It tends to evolve over time to reflect the environmental, cultural, technological, and historical context in which it exists
I mean "heads up here's what we're dealing with - let's handle it so we don't trip up, and proceed w/the plan". I've been accused of negative thinking and I'm afraid I usually don't see it that way. However, I know there are times when raising problems may not be the best course or well received.
Yes, sounds right. At least when a "student" starts w/the belief that it's worth learning. Part of the challenge for traditional building lies in spreading that belief. BUT: That's not really what I was thinking.
Not that one couldn't find _somebody_ who could claim expertise one way or another. But a person considering and planning a serious project cannot rely (well, should not) on a single or very limited source for critical information and resources.
One of the primary ways we search out and evaluate options is by getting multiple bids, designs, what have you, from different builders or craftsmen.
That's much more difficult when we're searching for some type of traditional build and it makes traditional building more problematic unless one is already a true believer. And even when one is committed to having their structure built traditionally, relatively few contractors reduces options in every way.
In this way traditional building today is not as accessible as "contemporary building" and this lack of options carries a cost in the level of risk, the options available and the final costs.
I'd like for more people to feel they had a real, practical, option to make that choice.
This would be more likely if traditional building were approached as a set of concepts which could adapt to local existing conditions rather than a set of particular methods and specific materials. Adaptations can allow the concepts to become more widespread. But would it still be "traditional building"? That would depend on whether one identifies traditional building with the specific structures and materials or with the concepts that inform those examples and make them successful. Here we get to the philosophy stuff - what is traditional building? And where maybe we have differing views.
There is. One can choose to build from a box store or related modernity...or...they can choose to go a natural route.
.So "just natural" isn't what I am saying either...
It turned out that there were only a couple of natural materials used, which is a vast improvement over mainstream monoconstructures, but not a natural build.
IMNSHO, you don't have to use all natural materials in order to gain natural build status; rather achieve a state of mind that utilizes every available resource in it's lowest embodied energy form, to achieve a structure that will house the current generation and leave a lasting legacy for future generations to live in and be inspired by.
to try and make sure I got my head all the way around it and didn't miss anything. The scenario made sense and tracked well for the most part...until I got to the more subjective views and conclusions...
2 acres in a subdivided farm, zone 5, and start thinking about a house to keep wife and kids happy...
Sounds like a barn to me and even if I'm a little intrigued, I'm dead meat if my wife decides there's a draft in her bedroom if I do this weird thing.
So on condition that nephew stays the hell in Oregon I agree to talk to some more people about timber frame. But my wife knows barns have wind blowing through them and so far I heard the walls need to "breath" and tight sealing doesn't work w/this type construction - sounds bad.
AND I don't have five years to study everything cuz we can't carry two mortgages forever.
So where do I find reliable compelling information about his type construction?
How is the "drafty" issue addressed?
What is this going to cost to heat?
Can I run A/C ducting so I stay married?
We need a basement, how does that fit in?
There's no way I'm not getting full concrete w/perimeter drains in this locale.
How much maintenance does this structure require each year?
Does _anybody_ locally do it?
What about low VOC.
Can I source pine flooring?
Wool in the walls - Bugs!
I'm divorced already!
Jay, you don't need to sell to "regular people" like John. But if you do - and I gather you think trad/nat (I'm working the letters down <g> building is "best" all around - if that is going to be true for "John" he needs a little help w/the above scenario. Finding that help is hard.
Finding that help w/specific trustworthy facts about his specific questions is harder. "Plain talk" is needed.
The skills needed and difficulty are not really an issue. It's the whole package that's an issue, at least for a customer in ordinary circumstances on a budget.
".... will mostly have already "found the faith"...."
..it is a choice...not a faith...
If we don't do the shopping, we won't have anything for dinner. And I've invited this tiny ad:
Taylor&Zach’s Bootcamp Journeyhttps://permies.com/t/115886/permaculture-projects/Taylor-Zach-Bootcamp-Journey