Hi my fellow permaculture goofballs !

I bought a farm last year and i'm in the process of installing a restauration ag. system.
The only thing ? I'm kind of on a budget and I really can't afford to buy trees at a nurserie...
That's a problem right !
So I tought I'd ask you guys for help !
This is actually my first post but I've consulted the forums for 6 months now and I know you guys are a
great bunch of people !

Here is a short list of what might interest me :

Hazelnuts
White oak
Currants
Korean bush cherry
automn berry
elderberry
seaberry
black berry
goosberry
Plums
Pears
(I've got all the apple seeds Icould ever want so i'm covered on that ! )

Or any thing that will grow in a zone 4 climate
I would also like a chestnut but same problem ( ther are none in the supermarket, and even if there were I couldn't know if they'll survive the winter )

Some of them I can get at the grocery but since I don't know if they'll suit the climate I tought I'd ask your advice or help !

I do have hazelnut bush on my property but they are ''Corylus cornuta'' they go up to zone 2 but I haven't found any productive ones
Would the ones at the supermarket survive the winter ?

Any toughts or comments would be appreciated !

I would also be happy to pay shipping cost plus some extra if you guys would have something for me

Thanks for taking the time !


Graig Leclerc

Here are places I got seeds from in the past. Some of those plants are easy to propagate from seeds while others can also be easily propagated from cuttings. I highly recommend investing in a book on propagation. I own this one: The Reference Manual of Woody Plant Propagation: From Seed to Tissue Culture, Second Edition and refer to it frequently.

Hazelnuts: I have bought from Grimo in the past, and would like to get some from Badgersett (let me know if you want to order too, we might be able to combine in order to reduce the import cost)
White oak, elderberry, and blackberry: The Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources tree facility (I am not sure they ship out of province).
Seaberry: Harmonic Herbs

For plums and pears, I would try to save seeds and propagate. I have had luck with pear, not so much with plums, but I did not try very hard.

For currants and gooseberry, I would invest in a few bush and propagate from cuttings until I get seeds, or buy some fruits, make jelly out of them and save the seeds.

I can help you with the chestnuts. I have a few thousand seedlings ready to sell next spring. Castanea mollisima (Chinese), I am in zone 4, these are from local trees with no evidence of blight susceptibility and almost no die-off at the orchard from frost or other issues. They are being grown in a totally organic manner, no sprays, no fertilizers, carbon rich soil to create fungal associations and really get the roots going. PM me.

Great answers guys !

I probably won't be planting this year as i'm focusing on keyline design but these are great ressources ( grimo, Badgersett, The Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources tree facility )

The book seems to be a great starting point so it looks to me like we have a plan and solved this one

I'll try to post pictures for everyone so everybody can see the progress and get some motivation to act on their farming journey

Graig Leclerc

Graig LeClerc, your cheapest option is to find local growers with strong seed sources, a landrace suited for your climate is important. Find a way to plant the seeds in the field and protect them, the taproot from a chestnut is a strong commodity, and worth it if you have the means to protect your seeds from raiding mice, squirrels, raccoons, etc. If this is too much headache (it is a significant problem), find a way to grow in containers or in a raised bed, without creating a taproot. If you have no taproot, the trees will transplant much stronger. Again, taprooted trees are the best when grown from seed, no taproot (with strong lateral roots) is best when transplanted. Also, look at the work of the Savannah Institute, and Woody Perennial Polycultures Research Site. They are doing what you are doing, and aggregating information on how to do it successfully.

Graig Leclerc wrote:Hi my fellow permaculture goofballs !

I bought a farm last year and i'm in the process of installing a restauration ag. system.
The only thing ? I'm kind of on a budget and I really can't afford to buy trees at a nurserie...
That's a problem right !
So I tought I'd ask you guys for help !
This is actually my first post but I've consulted the forums for 6 months now and I know you guys are a
great bunch of people !

Here is a short list of what might interest me :

Hazelnuts
White oak
Currants
Korean bush cherry
automn berry
elderberry
seaberry
black berry
goosberry
Plums
Pears
(I've got all the apple seeds Icould ever want so i'm covered on that ! )

Or any thing that will grow in a zone 4 climate
I would also like a chestnut but same problem ( ther are none in the supermarket, and even if there were I couldn't know if they'll survive the winter )

Some of them I can get at the grocery but since I don't know if they'll suit the climate I tought I'd ask your advice or help !

I do have hazelnut bush on my property but they are ''Corylus cornuta'' they go up to zone 2 but I haven't found any productive ones
Would the ones at the supermarket survive the winter ?

Any toughts or comments would be appreciated !

I would also be happy to pay shipping cost plus some extra if you guys would have something for me

Thanks for taking the time !


Graig Leclerc

Man I would really really love to help you. I am also attempting a grassland savanna ecosystem regeneration with Permaculture. But I am way down here in Oklahoma! So the species adapted here are quite unlikely to do well there in zone 4. I do know that there is a program to test a hazelnut American Chestnut savanna type agricultural model. If you could find that I bet it might be ideal. The American chestnuts have been crossed with Chinese chestnuts for blight tolerance and then selected back to the point they are 97% American Chestnut genes and still blight resistant. The hazelnuts were selected for high nut production! Apparently the project is testing the feasibility of replacing corn and soy with chestnuts and hazelnuts and getting yields in a similar range, but with obvious environmental advantages. Here is a discussion and video of the research project.

Restoration Agriculture Project

And here is a link to a place you can buy the trees and shrubs:
Badgersett Research Corporation.