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SAICOS Premium Hardwax-Oil?  RSS feed

 
Dillon Nichols
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Anyone have any experience with SAICOS Premium Hardwax-Oil? Datasheet available here: http://www.raincoastalternatives.com/products/interior/polyx-oil/

This is supposedly much the same thing as Osmo Polyx-Oil, except actually available here. I contacted both the dealers listed on the Osmo site for my region, and they are both carrying this instead.


Context: I'm looking for something to use on the interior wood in my van conversion. It needs to be able to cope with high humidity and resist mold in the hard to see spots behind/below/above the built-in furniture where I will not be able to clean or re-coat easily. It also needs to be able deal with water/mud on the plywood floor.

If it makes a difference, the wood I am using is just standard SPF construction grade 2x material, with some interior rated plywood for cupboards, and exterior rated plywood for the floor.


Any alternative suggestions?

 
Bill Bradbury
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Hi Dillon,

Though not completely natural, polyx-oil is a very good product. It is extremely tough and somewhat breathable. The only non-natural ingredient that I know of is the polysiloxane hence the name polyx. This is a microporous, breathable waterproofer that is gaining popularity as an additive to clay plasters. I used polyx-oil on our maple veneered plywood floors about 12 years ago. We live with 4 large dogs and they have held up wonderfully. I use a good furniture wax to restore the luster of the finish every 5 years or so and they look nearly new.

All Blessings,
Bill
 
Jay C. White Cloud
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Hi Dillion,

I am still considering Polysiloxane additives as a highly industrilized material. As such I am in correspondence with my manufacture of blended oils that I have used and recommended for the last 30 plus years...Heritage Finishes over this very subject.

I think many want the look of "polyurethanes" but don't understand the impact these have, on either the environment or difficulty in "refinishing" when the time comes. Even though this distribute is using "advertise language" like "natural choice" there isn't really too much about this product I would call "natural" per se, or low on the "industrialized spectrum."

It is all a mater of time, skill and choices...If the goal is a natural material that can be refinished easily...then go with natural oils. From here it is simply a move up the spectrum of materials, the project goals, and what someone cares to use. I am patient and like natural finishes, so have pretty much used the same product for a very long time. I do not think it is the "most durable"...I do know that refinishing is much easier because it is natural.

As the Polysiloxanes become more popular, perhaps a "less industrialized form" will come on the market. I still waiting for my vendor to get back to me on them about what they can get and if they feel it really does that much more for a product...thus far in research I am getting more cons, than pros, but that could very well be subjective "I don't knows" rather than "good info."
 
Dillon Nichols
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Thanks, Bill and Jay.

It sounds plenty durable for my needs; while not entirely natural, it looks a lot closer than anything else tough enough that I've come across so far, such as melamine. Given the amount of hassle that will be involved in removing the wooden components from this conversion in order to retreat the inaccessible surfaces, which are also the most likely spots for mold, I'm shooting for all the durability I can get in this case, and looking forward to building something in a fixed location where I can experiment with other options.


The mold/mildew issue is where I'm currently a bit stalled. An application guide for OSMO suggests pine in damp/humid conditions needs to be treated with their wax impregnated Wood Protector before oiling.

The SAICOS importer says that that isn't necessary for anything but green wood, which may be related to the fact that they don't have such a product. They say if I'm worried about it to apply a commercial biocide first.


Heritage natural finishes suggests a borate salt solution under their finishes... ie a borax solution. Anyone see a reason this wouldn't work as the biocide under the SAICOS hardwax? Is there something preferable?
 
Jay C. White Cloud
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Hi Dillon...

Heritage natural finishes suggests a borate salt solution under their finishes... ie a borax solution. Anyone see a reason this wouldn't work as the biocide under the SAICOS hardwax? Is there something preferable?


I think a natural "borax solution" and perhaps a natural fire retardant, which we are applying now to many of our green wood materials before any other treatment would be a very good idea. The nontoxic and/or safe fire retardants coming on line all have the benefit or inhibiting molds and fungus to a degree in there own right.

I do hope you post pictures of your project and keep everyone up to speed on how you feel about the material after using it and then in a few years of use as well. I would feel remiss if I didn't, once more, suggest that this material (besides having to be shipped from Germany) is assuredly not "natural" at all and not something I would ever recommend to folks personally.

The materials list is entirely to "industrial chemical heavy" for good practice in natural or traditional woodworking:

It has over 50 % solid contents with both good and "not so good" materials.

Natural vegetable waxes and oils: Carnauba and Candelilla, that is good stuff...if I am 100% sure of the quality and source.

Its wax, soybean, sunflower and thistle oils, paraffin waxes, leaves me a bit confused, as my experience has shown me that this is a bit of a manufactures..."shell game." They like to list all this but when tested by "third party verification labs" (which few manufactures do or will advertise about)...their products tend to reflect low grade Carnauba and Candelilla, as well as more petroleum paraffins than anything else like sunflower and thistle oil.

Then when I get to drying agents like Zinc-Zirconium-Cobalt-octoates, and "skin reducers" like 2-Butanonoxim, as well as, volatile ingredients like aliphatic hydrocarbons, I know I can not recommend or employ the product on my projects. As for Polysiloxanes that are silicic acid based...I am not sure that there alleged (very little long term data on this at all) is actually extremely water repellent, or necessary to add to a product. Perhaps in time there may be "more proof" about long term performance and this may also prove to be of some worth to outweigh the "carbon footprint" as a heavily industrialized material.

I didn't write the above to dissuade your use of this, but for other readers and disclosure of my dedication to better and more natural materials that perform just as well in the long run. Do please keep us up to speed on how your project progresses.

Regards,

j
 
Dillon Nichols
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Jay, thanks for continuing to provide advice after I've headed off in a direction you are against. Much appreciated.

Glad to hear you endorse a borax solution; FINALLY, an element of this project that uses some I have on hand, instead of something I can't purchase locally!


I completely agree that having the information here for anyone to reference is a good thing. I also better understand your objections now; I must admit I was taking the ingredients list at face value... not generally a good plan.

I'll get some pics, as soon as I get a camera, and I'll definitely report back about my experience.


Jay C. White Cloud wrote:perhaps a natural fire retardant, which we are applying now to many of our green wood materials before any other treatment would be a very good idea. The nontoxic and/or safe fire retardants coming on line all have the benefit or inhibiting molds and fungus to a degree in there own right.


Do you happen to have any suggested fire retardants? So far I'm finding lots of press releases but few actual purchasable products, and those few with no technical information...
 
Jay C. White Cloud
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Hey Dillion,

Thanks for letting me follow along on this, and I am glad you take my feedback in the positive way.

Do you happen to have any suggested fire retardants? So far I'm finding lots of press releases but few actual purchasable products, and those few with no technical information...


Here is my contact list in order of who I would reach out to for materials and questions. Feel free to drop my name, as a few of these folks are good collegues/friends.

Steve Sass

Flame Stop

Regards,

j
 
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