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Earthen or lime plaster?

 
Posts: 25
Location: Ozarks
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I am buying a tiny shed, 10 × 24 and double lofted, to finish out and live in. I'm using rigid foam boards to insulate,  and want to use a thin paneling or something of that nature, not sheetrock, for walls. It obviously won't be an earthen home, but I want touches of.
I'm wondering, if I use sheets of tin, and/or a wood paneling, would an earthen or lime plaster be a viable option for 2 or 3 of my walls? Would it adhere? And if i can reasonably use one of them, any thoughts on which would be better? Also, I've read a little about limewash as opposed to plaster  (as i understand it). If so, is that a better idea?
I want beadboard paneling on my ceiling, possibly barn tin on the loft ceilings, and either a faux shiplap, board and batten, or beadboard in kitchen and bathroom.
Another question; would a thin layered earthen floor be a legitimate and good option for the small living/bedroom areas in one of these premiere sheds? Do any of y'all know approximately how long it takes for walls/floors to dry when plastered/washed,  lime or earthen??
Thanks in advance for any replies/opinions, experience/advice.
DR
 
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I have seen clay and lime plaster adhered to reed mats that are stapled to the wood.
Clay on rough wood may work for a while until the wood works too much.
 
Debra Rains
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Hi Sebastian. Thanks so much.
Could you elaborate a little on those reed mats? Is that a homemade item, or premanufactured??
In any case, that idea makes sense.
Thanks again.
 
Sebastian Köln
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I never used them myself, but found them when taking apart old ceilings.

I found this shop from Germany:
https://www.hiss-reet-shop.de/naturbaustoffe/schilfgewebe/
 
Debra Rains
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Thank you!
 
steward
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Have you thought about using some sort of wood for your walls and then adding plaster to the wood?  Seems to me that would work.

Though I do like Sebastian's suggestion of reed mats.

Here is a thread about where to source reed mats:

https://permies.com/t/187796/Sourcing-Reed-Mat-ceiling
 
Debra Rains
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Hi, Anne. Ty, appreciated. Any thoughts on which of the 2 plasters might be better?
 
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My vote would be an earthen plaster. Lime plaster is great for outside because it offered more weather resistance and durability, but earthen plaster is easier to apply, repair, and is quite a bit cheaper.

My house has a cement stabilized earthen plaster outside and pretty much the same recipe for inside except without cement.

After many tests, 3 parts sand 1 clay .5 straw was the recipe I used inside. For the exterior I added .333 part cement. It worked great.

Edit: substrates are difficult, I went through the same thing. My exterior walls are wood fiber blocks that receive plaster well, but my interior walls will be framed walls with gypsum board. An adhesion coat of wheat paste and sharp sand will allow a skim coat of plaster to adhere well. I looked into the reed matting or burlap or lath or cob options… all things considered, such as cost, environmental food print, ease of construction, etc. I am ok with drywall. Not ideal but pretty close. And so much faster and easier than the other choices.
 
Posts: 573
Location: Sierra Nevada foothills, 350 m, USDA 8b, sunset zone 7
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Debra,

How will you attach plaster to a wooden structure? These are two incompatible materials and creating some interface will be challenging. Of course you can buy some bathroom boards in construction materials store and then plaster them, it would be easy, but I don't think you want such a solution. In this case you have to create some base first - wooden slats, woven reeds that would accept the plaster.
Personally I would keep the shed a shed and stay with compatible - wood only materials.

If you want "touches of" earthen/masonry building I would do something that would not be a "touch", but an actual wall. You are already renovating and it's only a shed so:
-you could pour footing
-erect a wall: from bricks or structural bricks or stone or adobe or stabillized adobe or cob, or even concrete blocks (grouted with cob)
-plaster the way you like

It may sound like on overkill, but you would have an actual wall that you could place on the southern side of the shed for solar gain, and also use it as thermal mass for a wood heater. You could incorporate some real masonry features into it some niches for storage, consoles, etc.
It would have good materials, would look good and would have function - all three aspects of a good architecture.
I built several masonry walls (house, barn, gate) and can assist you with material choice and general know how.
 
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Hi Debra,

If your shed has 2x  vertical framing that supports the exterior siding, and you are using the foam insulation between these vertical framing members, you can definitely apply earth (clay) plaster to the walls.  The question is how thick?   Prior to the post-WWII widespread availability of sheetrock (drywall, gypsum board, et. al.), interior wall surfaces in N. America and probably in many other places were first lathed with horizontal strips of wood and then plastered.  A material like reed mats might work, although properly spaced wood strips will probably give a thick plaster better purchase.  We have worked on projects here in Oregon where clients wanted lath and plaster instead of sheetrock. Wood lath dimensions vary, but need to be long enough to span between vertical framing, stiff enough to resist flexing, and spaced far enough apart so that the first coat of plaster (called the scratch coat) oozes into the horizontal gap, sags a bit, and dries.  This is the "hook" that secures the plaster to the lath.  Here in S. Oregon we staple the lath to framing using 1 1/2" long galv. 7/16" galvanized staples and a pneumatic stapler, although traditionally the strips would have been nailed to the studs.  The wood strips are approximately 1" wide, at least 4' long, so they span several vertical framing members, and around 1/4" to 3/8" thick depending on the wood used.  White oak is stiffer so can be used at the thinner end of the range.  Here we have more ready access to Douglas fir, which is a bit more flexible, so it's thicker.  

This system relies on a bit of space behind the lath so that plaster can ooze through the gaps and curl.  Maybe just 1/4" or 1/2".  We have applied plasters up against blown-in-cellulose that fills the wall cavities--there's enough "give" that the system works.   We always apply three coats--a scratch, brown, and finish, although with the right mix you could do it in one or two coats.  The relatively thin layers of the first two coats at 3/8" or so (each) assures even drying with a clay (earth) plaster, which is helpful in managing cracks when there's no fiber in the mix.  The total build-out is between 3/4" and 1", with the color coat being the thinnest.  

Clay (earth) plasters are generally easier to work with under a wider range of conditions.  Drying times depend on ambient conditions.  If you're able to do this during warm, dry weather, just open all your windows and doors, run a fan to help circulate air and the clay (earth) plasters will likely dry in just a few days--ready for the next coat.  If the weather is cold and wet and you're not able to condition (heat and dehumidify) the interior, the moisture in the plaster will likely stay there for much longer--sometimes weeks--until drier ambient conditions are present.   I haven't applied lime plasters to wood lath--not sure how it would perform in terms of cracking unless you go to some effort to prevent it.  Prior to WWII gypsum plasters, often mixed with lime, were used for interior walls and plasterers often mixed horsehair fiber into the base coats to reinforce against cracking.  

Plastering over plywood is possible, but you need to lath the plywood and tape edges to prevent cracks from telegraphing through as the plywood moves (shrinks and expands with moisture changes).  We use slipped burlap for lath over plywood, stapled to the plywood once the burlap has dried.  The tape on edges is drywall tape.  Over this we have applied clay plasters up to about 1/4" thick.

Plastering over metal is also possible, but you need to attach a lath.  I have used sanded primer paint on drywall--I know some primers are designed for use on metal as well.  I'm not sure how sanded heat paste would perform on metal...  The plaster thickness could be around 1/8".

A good resource for this is Earthen Floors by Sukita Reay Crimmel and James Thomson (New Society Publishers). I have installed just a few earth floors, Depending on conditions, it can take a week or more for 1" of earth floor to dry, and another several weeks for the oil finish applied to the floor help it resist dings and dents to cure--so about a month.    

Jim
Many Hands Builders
 
Debra Rains
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Scott, thanks so much for your thoughts and input, I appreciate it.
Debra
 
Debra Rains
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Cristobal,  thanks so much. I am absolutely not a carpenter, but I've experienced some challenges recently that convince me I'm more capable than I used to think. I really like the idea of the southern wall. I'm not sure the most ideal method, but definitely not block. I've got to keep all the interior space I can, as it's so small to begin with.
I'd absolutely welcome any suggestions and practical advice.
Debra
 
Debra Rains
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Jim, thank you. That's a lot of good information, and gives food for thought.
Earthen floors are absolutely beautiful; I'd be hard pressed to name anything I like better as far as appearance. I would love to experiment with this in our little shed/house.
Again, thanks so much.
Debra
 
Cristobal Cristo
Posts: 573
Location: Sierra Nevada foothills, 350 m, USDA 8b, sunset zone 7
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Debra,

The selection of masonry materials in USA is extremely poor - either concrete blocks or regular bricks - 99.9% machine made - rather not appealing but they would be plastered anyway. There do exist large structural bricks - very expensive, because they are being used to build structures financed by taxpayer money (so why to compete for price?).

Compressed earth blocks can be made with a lot of labor or purchased. Adobe blocks can be made relatively easily. Used bricks can be rather easily purchased. I would buy them in less popular kingsize (10") or utility (12"). They could be purchased cheaper, because they are less popular and more difficult to sell and could make some nice 12" thick wall.

For standard masonry a lot would depend on your location - freezing depth would affect the depth of the footings, potential seismicity would require some vertical reinforcing and horizontal ladder mesh or intermediate bond beam for piece of mind. If you went with hand placed cob then probably some simpler foundation would be possible. Options are numerous.

Of course devil in in details, decision would have to be made if the wall would be bearing and replace a wall of the shed or would be just built against existing studs. The former solution would require more analysis and the latter would take more space.
You could also replace southern (or even all) studs with thicker lumber, let's say 5x5" in larger distances and fill the spaces with cob or bricks and plaster just them to create Prussian wall. Then you would have traditional hybrid of wood and masonry.
 
Debra Rains
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Cristobal, I really appreciate the information and opinion. I'm in the southern states but not the deep south, so while the summers are hot and muggy, the winters are usually chilly but not frequently extreme. I'm not educated sufficiently to really know much about how it all affects the different types of earthen structures. But I enjoy learning more about it.
All the information and ideas that have been shared here are appreciated and really a little bit amazing. I'll continue to study up on options and hopefully make the best choices.
Any further information is much appreciated. Thanks again!!
Debra
 
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