Scribing tool.....

Question: for scribing poles in timber framing, is there really that much advantage to buying something like the Veritas Log Scribe over something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-H5887-Length-Divider-16-Inch/dp/B0002U8BYA/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1444070462&sr=8-9&keywords=16%22+divider

I know it's not a huge deal to pay $100+ for a good tool, but I'm just not sure this time if it's really worth it....what say ya'll?

Thanks!

Tom

Or just make one, but yes if you use them right it makes a difference....

Two pieces of wood a bolt and a lid slide mechanism from a hardware store, add whittling and go!

Hi Tom,

Question: for scribing poles in timber framing, is there really that much advantage to buying something like the Veritas Log Scribe over something like this:

Yes...A huge difference. The item in the shared link is a "dividing compass" and then you have "just plan dividers." Scribing tools come in a broad range and type. The "Veritas" is what we use for many applications that require "live edge scribe fit joinery" but for simple applications such as a post on a stone plinth, a pencil and a large washer or quarter can more than create a tight joint.

Let us know what you are attempting and I can give better advice. To be clear however the tool shared is not for scribing.

Regards,

j

Looking at it with fresh eyes this morning, I can see how the divider would not work. So correct me if I'm wrong, but the big advantage to the Veritas is the levels that help to keep the pencil a constant distance away from the guiding surface? Also, Jay, I would love to hear more about the pencil/washer method you mentioned. I apologize, for some reason I just seem to have a mental block on scribing in general. I'm sure I'll be smacking my forehead later.

Hi Tom...

... the big advantage to the Veritas is the levels that help to keep the pencil a constant distance away from the guiding surface?

Kind'a my friend...

The Veritas is a "bi-directionally orienting bubble scribe" these can cost up to a $1000 dollars for really intricate scribing. The more expensive ones just make the job easier for less experienced hands as traditional scribing. I have seen talented students/DIYers do just as good (better??) with the Veritas and even home made forms.

The key is "zeroing in" the tool to both "plumb and level" before attempting datum transfer from target to receiving member. So, it is all three...

1.) level

2.) plumb

3.) set distance...typically in that order of registration...

I would love to hear more about the pencil/washer method you mentioned.

I will be blogging extensively (with links) to the many different modalities, books, and tools very soon. I will get a link up on the "simple timber frame" post I have here...

I'm sure I'll be smacking my forehead later.

Gosh Brother......not to hard!!

Give a shout if you need a specific "what if" and I will do my best.

Warm Regards,

j

Tom Phillips wrote: I would love to hear more about the pencil/washer method you mentioned.

There's a decent picture showing it done on this homehack website.

I went ahead and added this to the gear forum to see if you can get any other help from people there.

Perfection Michael..!!..Thanks for finding that!

That is it, and it works off the principles of '"geometric scribing" so works vertical, horizontal or and od angles really well in many (not all) applications.

The fancy transfer scribes, and even compasses to some extent, are surely a pleasure to work with.  However, the only functional difference between a $387,653.26 professional compass and a couple of sticks bolted together is price.  I admit I like the fine adjustment wheel and precision nylon joints on my drafting compass - very easy to use - but I could do just as good a job with a homemade compass whose connections were secured using spare nuts and bolts.

Regarding the fancy levelling armature on a transfer scribe, a piece of coathanger and a 50¢ spirit level could accomplish the same thing.

If you have money to burn, professional/engineered tools often have little features about them that make them much easier to use.  The premium is all about convenience.

I’m happy to know more about that tool and that there is a less expensive way.

I am not a very experienced woodworker but I saw a Japanese woodworker use a différent method to make a 90 degrees mortise and tenon joint with round poles.

1. Make the mortise.
2. Make the tenon a bit shorter then the final result and as if it was to be inserted in squared timber.
3. Put them together.
4. Use a scribing tool to copy the curve on the tenoned pole.
5. Remove and finish the joint.

This reduces the distance between the model curve and the copy, reducing the risk of mistake. The man had no spirit level on the tool, only by sight. Does it recall something to y’all?

Gabriel Babin wrote:I’m happy to know more about that tool and that there is a less expensive way.

I am not a very experienced woodworker but I saw a Japanese woodworker use a différent method to make a 90 degrees mortise and tenon joint with round poles.

1. Make the mortise.
2. Make the tenon a bit shorter then the final result and as if it was to be inserted in squared timber.
3. Put them together.
4. Use a scribing tool to copy the curve on the tenoned pole.
5. Remove and finish the joint.

This reduces the distance between the model curve and the copy, reducing the risk of mistake. The man had no spirit level on the tool, only by sight. Does it recall something to y’all?

This is called "scribe rule" timber framing, if memory serves me right.

I'm by no means an expert compared to the rest of the guys on this forum, but a beginner learning through mistakes. Since log scribing information is so hard to come by, I started documenting my findings. I give rough introduction to it here  

For anyone else watching, if you have any pointers that I'm missing, feel free to share. Since the information is hard to come by, I'm unintentionally reinventing the wheel…

I was just on on a roundwood building course where they had several Veritas scribes and also hand made ones. Having used both I'd say that the hand made scribe was not problematic to use - the largest difference was how easy they are to set up and calibrate. The hand made version was a pain to set the correct distance between the pencils and tighten sufficiently (so that they wouldn't move throughout the whole scribing process) whilst keeping the scribe plumb. The Veritas scribes allows you to lock the pencils separately which makes accurately setting up much easier. The hand made design only has one pencil angle, and I did find it useful to change the angle of the pencils in the Veritas. The veritas scribes probably also have a reasonably good resale value. For my context the price of the Veritas (while expensive for a manual tool) is probably going to be worth the convenience and time saving. However in a context with lots of time less money or less roundwood joints to make the hand made version could be an appropriate choice. Whichever way you go make sure you can set it up correctly whilst plumb otherwise neither would work well.