• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • r ranson
  • Carla Burke
  • Nancy Reading
  • John F Dean
  • Jay Angler
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Burra Maluca
  • Joseph Lofthouse
master gardeners:
  • Timothy Norton
  • Christopher Weeks
gardeners:
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • Maieshe Ljin
  • Nina Surya

Will air-layering a grafted tree above the graft produce genes of the rootstock, scion, or both?

 
Posts: 33
Location: Southern California (God Help Us)
1
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
If I have an apple or citrus tree that is grafted onto a root stock, and I air-layer a grafted branch or a branch ABOVE the graft (not a sucker), will the air-layered plant be a clone of the rootstock, the scion, or will it have genes from both since it is forming new roots while still attached to the rootstock?

I hope this makes sense --- just spent hours googling this to no avail.
 
pollinator
Posts: 100
Location: Oakland, CA
9
fungi trees chicken
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
It will be a clone of the scion/graft.  This makes sense right, the grafted part of the tree is creating roots from its own cells.
 
Ryan A Miller
Posts: 33
Location: Southern California (God Help Us)
1
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Yeah it totally makes sense.  I guess I was overthinking it, since with air-layering the xylem and pith are still attached and what not I was thinking some rootstock genes might hybridize with the scion or something, idk haha thank you!
 
pollinator
Posts: 3828
Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7 AHS:4 GDD:3000 Rainfall:48in even Soil:SandyLoam pH6 Flat
557
2
forest garden solar
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The roots normally produce the growth/master hormone for the top part of the tree thus inducing earlier fruiting and dwarfing. The hormones might travel and even affect the gene expression of the top part of the tree but sir layering will not give you a hybrid of the rootstock and graft.

I do however find budspurt interesting
 
Ryan A Miller
Posts: 33
Location: Southern California (God Help Us)
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

S Bengi wrote:The roots normally produce the growth/master hormone for the top part of the tree thus inducing earlier fruiting and dwarfing. The hormones might travel and even affect the gene expression of the top part of the tree but sir layering will not give you a hybrid of the rootstock and graft.

I do however find budspurt interesting



Thank you, clearly put for me.  Budspurt?
 
S Bengi
pollinator
Posts: 3828
Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7 AHS:4 GDD:3000 Rainfall:48in even Soil:SandyLoam pH6 Flat
557
2
forest garden solar
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_(botany)

In botany, a sport or bud sport, traditionally called lusus,[1] is a part of a plant that shows morphological differences from the rest of the plant.
Sports may differ by foliage shape or color, flowers, or branch structure.

An example of a bud sport is the nectarine, at least some of which developed as a bud sport from peaches.
Other common fruits resulting from a sport mutation are the red Anjou pear and the 'Pink Lemonade' lemon which is a sport of the "Eureka" lemon.[3]
 
Posts: 310
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

S Bengi wrote:The roots normally produce the growth/master hormone for the top part of the tree thus inducing earlier fruiting and dwarfing.  



I always understood that a weak root system was responsible for dwarfing. Can you share some more info rmation about growth inhibiting factors from the root stock?
 
S Bengi
pollinator
Posts: 3828
Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7 AHS:4 GDD:3000 Rainfall:48in even Soil:SandyLoam pH6 Flat
557
2
forest garden solar
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Most adenine-type cytokinins are synthesized in roots.
Cytokinins (CK) are a class of plant growth substances (phytohormones) that promote cell division, or cytokinesis, in plant roots and shoots. They are involved primarily in cell growth and differentiation, but also affect apical dominance, axillary bud growth, and leaf senescence. Folke Skoog discovered their effects using coconut milk in the 1940s at the University of Wisconsin–Madison.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokinin
 
Posts: 14
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Back in my college days (agriculture) in 1982 I remember reading about tomatoes grafted onto pot plants, and the tomatoes showed the same side effects as the rootstock. Just interesting...
 
You've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, tiny ad?
Learn Permaculture through a little hard work
https://wheaton-labs.com/bootcamp
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic