Sarah Koster wrote:Hi Nathan.
No problem whatsoever with the depth, I gladly go as deep as I can fathom. Sometimes I get to the point where it's murky but that's when I'm the most free to identify assumptions that I have about life, reality, myself and God that might not be true, and challenge them.
I agree with you that many aspects of permaculture fit very well into a christian worldview, and I feel that many of those principles can remedy harmful cultural norms which the church has stopped challenging, which are clearly contrary to scripture. I feel that scripture clearly designates human beings as caretakers and stewards of the land, and that barrenness of the land and loss of biodiversity are named as signs of error on the part of human beings in, for example, Isaiah. I would much rather invest my toil into nurturing people, animals and land than to invest my toil in a company that destroys them all for the sake money. I have never been able to accept the western concept of ownership as legitimate, nor have I ever succeeded in convincing anyone to abandon their own sense of entitlement or lack thereof. I am, however, more than willing to use the extant system to my advantage when it comes to securing property for my own use, since doing so would protect the land and its value to future generations.
How I got into permaculture... I think I just migrated that way without realizing it. Even as a child I could recognize that calling certain plants weeds and treating them as a nuisance, even attractive and useful plants, was silly. I loved bugs and trees and worms and toads and birds and everything that is alive except mosquitos and ticks.
I'm not really done writing, but people in the house are being really noisy so I'm gonna have to finish later. Very much enjoyed reading your last post.
Sarah Koster wrote:J- this thread is the wrong place for your question.
Thanks! I do tend to peddle in gloom too much, it's a learned behavior as my dad literally walks around the house saying, "Doom, doom dooom. We're all doomed." He thinks this is funny. Doctrinally speaking I'm well aware of the hope and the good and salvation for all of creation through Christ, but on the emotional end it's been quite the challenge.
I didn't mean to imply that agriculture has anything to do with salvation, if you got that impression. The fact that the Hebrews were largely nomadic shepherds kind of attests to that. There's always been conflict between nomadic herdsmen and stationary, grain-oriented farmers. The necessity of tilling came with the curse, but with Christ the curse is broken.
I would like to get back to your enthusiastic emphasis on love-- this is absolutely the most important thing. Honestly I have had a transient lifestyle for much of my adult life, and with it experienced a lot of abuse which has left me feeling not quite myself. I am interested neither in repeating this cycle, nor in making myself feel like crap over it. I am, however, interested in healing and growing and overcoming my grotesquely oversensitive conscience. (If I see a worm on the sidewalk, and I don't move it to the dirt, I might keep thinking about it for a few days, wishing I had helped the worm.) I would like to re-learn how to love people, as I've crawled into my little snail shell for safety and am having trouble finding my way back out.
I also didn't mean to imply that all companies and all industry are inherently evil and doom-hastening. However, the economic model which necessitates constant growth in order for common people to meet their basic needs, is flawed. It incentivizes over-consumption, over-exploitation and over-production at the same time as it artificially creates demand by holding back certain resources and conditioning people to consume and depend on services and quantities of goods that do not improve their quality of life.
Ideally I fantasize about using absolutely no electricity, not because I'm afraid that the greenhouse gases will ruin the weather and kill everybody, but because I think petroleum products are gross and dirty. Practically I would very much like to have a freezer full of durian at my constant disposal for the rest of my life.
I'm thinking that my own studies have been much more focused on the events leading up to the captivity than yours, there are a few books where God deals with human behavior on a nationwide scale specifically. Probably I have a fascination with the Isaiah-->Ezra (the priest Ezra, not the "book of ezra" that's being circulated which I don't trust whatsoever) series of events because I originally found it disturbing. In these books the events unfolding are attributed, not to an individual's sin, but to the collective behavior of the Hebrew nations as a whole. Isaiah actually does describe desertification as being the result of sin.
The flip side is that with a simple change of behavior, we can do a LOT of good. Nature prettymuch fixes itself, once we stop doing horrible things to it. The Ohio which was almost completely deforested 100 or so years ago, today is covered with trees. The nature preserve that was devastated by a tornado 20 years ago, looks like a mature forest now. There aren't any toads by my house anymore, since the township bought the spawning grounds and turned it into a "park" by cutting down tons of trees and messing up the wetland, but a 40 minute walk away there's a temporary pond in an abandoned parking lot that's full of toad tadpoles.
Anyway... not really looking for someone who agrees with me on everything (neither of us would learn anything!) so much as someone who shares the same goals and convictions of heart. That way we can work together effectively and not undermine one another. Someone with whom I can be candid and show my whole self to-- and not have to hide the parts I hide from church people, and not have to hide the parts I tuck away from permie people. (Last church I was at, they kept trying to get me to "get a job that uses my degree" even though I would hate that! As if that's what I needed to live a fulfilling life and to please God. Sheesh. Not to mention my degree is almost entirely useless on its own.) So basically... someone to call home.
Sarah Koster wrote:So... about the ducks.
I used to have two ducks, named Tender and Delicious. I didn't know about raccoons back then... their lives were brief and exciting. So much joy from a kiddie pool full of minnows.
I'm hoping you don't have an unrealistic idea of my merits, I'm probably a bit of a rapscallion by churchy standards what with my hitch-hiking ways. I have learned that my ideals are not something I can live up to and am trying to adjust those ideals (and my threshold for guilt over failing) more to what God asks of me rather than trying to live up to the fairytale hero paradigm in my mind.
Do you have the experience of people misquoting scripture to try and discourage you from farming? I'm not sure why people do that here.
People think if someone is talented, that they should be passionate about what they're talented at. But it isn't always so. Sometimes a person is only passionate about things they're really really bad at. Sometimes a person is only passionate about things that aren't marketable or interesting to businesses. And sometimes a person has such a wide variety of interests that they find it really really really difficult to invest themself in just one.
Nathan May wrote:Hey permie singles! I'm a 37-year-old, Christian guy here who would love to be able to share this 24 acres that I have here in the Missouri Ozarks. I work remotely as a web developer, but I'm looking to transition into being more self-sufficient and caring of the people around me. So far I've been learning some gardening and beekeeping. I recently even got some ducks. It'd be great to get to know other singles who share similar goals in life.