• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • Anne Miller
  • paul wheaton
  • Joseph Lofthouse
  • Mike Jay
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Devaka Cooray
garden masters:
  • Steve Thorn
  • Dave Burton
  • Dan Boone
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Mandy Launchbury-Rainey
  • Mike Barkley

Planting mature fruit trees into bad soil in Naussau -- any way to make it work?

Posts: 68
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I will be planting fruit trees next year in a soil that is very hard with rocks, clay and where it is hard to grow anything.
The person who owns this parcel of land wants mature large trees, the kind you get for $350 at the nursery.

I'm afraid that such mature trees won't adapt well to the soil.

What do you folks recommend?
Posts: 174
Location: North Coast Dominican Republic
forest garden trees tiny house
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
It sounds like this land owner has more money than knowledge. Mature trees are always a risk to transplant anyway.

It sounds to me like you need to persuade this owner to invest seriously in soil rehabilitation -- according to this article: Improving Clay Soils it appears your basic approach is the same as what all of us permaculture folks advocate anyway: lots of organic matter, and build up the nutrient cycling. As to how to get that on a scale that would help these trees -- does the management team have access to trucks and earth moving machines? Perhaps you should educate this owner about the old farmer's adage: if you have a dollar to spend on your farm, spend 95 cents on the soil and 5 cents on the plants.
Posts: 2389
Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7, AHS:4, Rainfall:48in even Soil:SandyLoam pH6 Flat
forest garden solar
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I understand why the owner wants mature trees.
Plant the mature trees every 20ft and between then plant regular trees.
He will have his mature trees for 3 years and buy the time they all die the 'regular' ones will have taken over.

Also don't be afraid to buy tons of biochar and also dig swale, and import innoculants and rockdust and woodchip.

You can make him happy and also make the soil/ecology happy.

Laurent Voulzy
Posts: 68
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you!
Why are mature trees so sensitive to transplantation? I think the owner wants large trees because their leaves produce more organics, long term mending strategy. But maybe planting a mix of semi drwarves for immediate fruit production, alongside some variety of trees that produces a lot of leaves might be a good alternate solution?

Can you check if I get these right?
1- clay soil is naturally fertile but the compact structure and water impermeability prevents the roots from breathing.
2- mending clay soil requires a short term and long term strategy
   2a- short term is done by mixing organics with the soil
   2b- long term is done with cover crops (clover?)
3- preventing water logging is important and done by planting trees in burms above surface
4- A swale a trench where the burm part is mixed with organics, and that burm is where planting occurs.
5- A swale allows water to move, a huggel culture does not.
6- water moving is ok with roots, water stagnating causes root rot.

Equipment they have:
a default bobcat skid steer

A hand held 16" gas powered Auger, no backhoe.

The Auger is an absolute nightmare to use in this soil and nearly useless in my experience as digging with shovel ends up being faster even to install posts. The last time I worked on that land, I mixed water thinking that it would soften the soil, instead it turned it into glue.

The default bobcat might be good enough to dig trench for swale building, but mixing organics in so much burm (100 trees worth) will need a clever solution. The first thing that comes to mind is doing a hybrid huggel/swale by digging a trench 2x the width, place logs in one half and push the earth over that half. Any better idea?

I wonder if having them invest in one of these helps.

Posts: 20
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've got rocky, heavy clay here. Clay has quite a few benefits, but it must be tempered with a LARGE amount of soil amendments. When a tree first goes in, I dig a massive hole. Three or four times the size of the root ball, leaving a big "cushion" between the bottom of the ball and where the clay starts. Then, I completely blanket the clay soil with wood chips, pine tree mulch (anything highly acidic), and compost. The whole yard, or at least as large a portion as possible. Over time, as you add layers of organic matter, they break down and work into the clay. It is incredibly hot and arid where I live, so I add about six inches or so of mulch right up to the trunks of my trees.

That being said, I've never planted a very large tree. Biggest ones I bring home come in five gallon pots.
I have a knack for fixing things like this ... um ... sorry ... here is a concilitory tiny ad:
Food Forest Card Game - Game Forum
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!