Kara Ann

Hi Tiffaney,
Great conversation here, with lots of different points of view!  You seem very open to the information offered - a good quality for someone looking for an optimal solution...

When I was evaluating flooring options during a kitchen rebuild, the inert / low chemical burden was a priority for me - for both the flooring product itself (tile / wood / underlay etc) and the products to attach it in to place (adhesive / grout / mastic / mortar / whatever).  The building was constructed very tightly with minimal airflow and I did not want to deal with cumulative offgassing.  I second Jay's mention of marmoleum - similar to traditional jute linoleum, minimal chemical burden for both the marmoleum and the mastic to apply it. We used marmoleum tiles which were very easy to install, but it also comes in rolls.   https://www.forbo.com/flooring/en-us/commercial-products/marmoleum/cfctp7
Surely they have a website in French language as well.   Definitely not for around the RMH, but it was really nice, easy to maintain, temperature neutral (unlike tile), and individual tiles could be replaced if something dreadful damaged one of them.

Hi Josh,

Perhaps you could look at stabilizing the gravel with geocell tiles or grid?   This technique was developed by the US Army Corps of Engineers in the 1950s... and it did not get much traction for a few decades, but now is quite widely available. Geocell is good for soil / aggregate stabilization, used for foundation in agricultural buildings.
See more here if you are unfamiliar with these: https://www.backyardbases.com/farms/?srsltid=AfmBOorvToLHJjKJJfGYlnJrNLVpW6DiOzwwsyg6ZDQw5f1vOF6HTyoR
Scroll down to look at all the pics on that webpage.
There are lots of manufacturers, lots of slightly different products. All of the, help to lock the 3/4 minus aggregate into position for stable footing.

I used these grids for the access road onto the property and area around buildings: https://www.amazon.com/VIVOSUN-High-Density-Foldable-Installation-Driveways/dp/B0BZP1SXN3?th=1
I used these tiles for building footing for my greenhouse (work in progress): https://vodaland-usa.com/products/hexpave-grass-gravel-paving-system
See pics attached.

You would need to rework your gravel that you have so carefully perched  and compacted there, in order to implement the geocell, but it could offer you better stability within the challenges of your project. You could add a cinderblock / rebar / ground anchored short footer wall around that 16 inch build up area to give you a solid boundary.

Are you familiar with geocell grids?

Wooo hooo, indeed!
Congratulations - those plants that we grow from seed are the most special and meaningful, aren't they?
Thanks for sharing your picture - glad to have the inspiration for the day.

Welcome Hal!

A volunteer named Hal came to play,
On Permies, she's brightening each day.
She'll moderate threads,
Award apples, and spread
Good vibes in the tomato-y way!


Can you share a few words to let us know your interests and joys?

One of my friends had a pair of pot bellied pigs. He created a two strand electric fence surrounding a 20 ft circle around some trees behind his house. We were out there shooting the breeze and he mentioned that his little pigs weren't that smart and said he had turned off the fence a week prior. He bent down and strummed the wire showing me that is was not currently hot. His little pigs watched him touch the wire and the chase was on. They both broke free as soon as they saw it was safe, and took off. Took 20 minutes to finally tackle the escapees.  

Great story - never underestimate an animal that is paying attention!!

Thank you, Nina - this is great, really appreciate your description.   Great idea with rain collection on their shelter for water.
Do they use a wallow when it is wet / cold?

Thanks David for the soil encouragement and to Nina for your great story of persisting until it worked and to Jodie for sharing your experience with the electric netting.

Both of you are in about the same gardening zone 8 as where I am - can you comment on how you overwinter your pigs? Shelter? How do they do with long stretches of cold rain?

Wow Jay - love the story about the Nova Scotia well
and very good point about the fracking, it really impacts the watersheds it touches... and about the phytoremediation with the area plants benefitting the water quality.

Hey Melissa - sounds like you have some thankfully benign surroundings with organic farms and homesteads and fallow fields. Hope the water test reflects that.

And regarding well depth - more shallow wells for sure have higher risk of contamination than deeper wells due to the natural filtration capacities of rock and soil....
but that risk does not drop markedly until the well is much deeper (50ft- 100ft), and even then very dependent on the local hydrology.
We can proactively balance the realities of that with the really good filtration possibilities that are available now.
The property that I steward is off grid, and I don't have a well - my water source is rainwater catchment (and I am setting up dew capture devices this month - woo hoo).
I use a filter that does not require electricity: https://lifestraw.com/products/lifestraw-max
There are probably plenty of other really good filters that others here on Permies are using and can suggest.
Filtration is going to be part of the water plan no matter what... so even if there are contaminants, there are ways forward.

Let us know how the test results come out.

Thanks Stacy for posting this - I love the way it embodies the 'use what is on hand' directive in a simple and effective way.
You are adding more bedding over time in each of the 'hay hut' bays between the bales to keep the deep bedding dry? Or pigs pull it down from the large round bales?

Can you say more about overwintering pigs? I am a newbie, planning to start with pigs this year, in pacific northwest, growing zone 8a, so we don't get anything like the cold temps you do, but we do get a LOT of rain.  Any thoughts to share?

Thanks David! I appreciate all of the guidance, and it is fun to read all the appreciation and care you have for your pigs as well as the practicalities.... especially the description for feed. I ferment grains for chickens and geese, great to have this info for pigs.

Would you weigh in on another pig topic, this one about weather?  You are in Pierce County - my farm is close by in Mason County - so pretty similar climate.
There is a natural basin on the property, about 10 feet below ground level of the surrounding area, where I am planning to establish a pond, with pigs to gley / seal it.  
Within the basin area there is saturated ground with some standing water  (a foot or less) from November through May, and but dry from June through October or November.
The hydrology is a 'seasonally perched vernal pool'. I'd like to work with the naturally wet and dry times of the year to optimize the gleying process in that basin.

The property is off grid and there is not a well yet. My water supply is rainwater catchment - abundant in winter, intermittent but adequate in summer (so far).
Since pigs need water to wallow, the time when that is most available in that basin is in the cool winter months.
If I build a shelter (4 pigs / 6ft x 8ft loafing shed) with dry deep bedding for them, upslope from the basin that I want to gley, and within the wire fenced area, is that going to be a good environment for them?
They could be inside / dry when they want to be, or outside in the basin area, eating, compacting, digging, making manure when they want that...
Or is wet / wallow + cold winter a unreasonable combination? As a first time pig-herder, I don't know...
Your pigs are in similar weather - would you share what their winter time housing and outdoor access is like on your farm?