Flooring options

Hello,

Even though we've been working on renovating our house for ten years, it's still far from being done and one of the things that hasn't been done is flooring. And my husband began trying to talk me into tiles, when I hate tile flooring and hate, hate, hate cleaning tile flooring even more. His reasoning is for when dogs are at our house. At this moment, we have two dogs that come over every January 1st. This last visit, they took a very long nap on the rocket. I love wood and wood flooring. To me, wood flooring is easy to clean, with just sweeping and a very slightly humid mopping with linseed oil and black sioap. Or, at least that was all I did when we lived with a wood floor when we lived in our yurt. Tiles involve back-breaking scrubbing on a regular basis.

I had decided that I wanted bamboo laminated flooring ( https://www.parquetdebambou.fr/produit/parquet-flottant-contrecolle-xxl-bambou-densifie-ambre ) over the existing tile flooring, where there isn't the height for anything else, wood flooring where there is the height, waxed cement flooring in the bathroom, tile in the entry, where shoes are changed from outdoor to indoor ones, and a earthen floor near the rocket stove. Would anyone with experience with these types of flooring please share them with me to help me convince my husband? We don't have a dog now, but it is possible that we would have one again one day. How have they fared with dogs? And cats, which we do have.

Cordially,
Tiffaney in Brittany,  France

I grew up with tile flooring and I have no memory of lots of scrubbing.  Glazed tiles should be even less permiable and more durable than wood, right?

The only issue i remember with tiles was thay sweeping over grout lines was annoying, and with a vacuum that wasn't an issue. That, and you always need to buy a bunch of extra tile because replacement  of a cracked tile with the same kind of tile in 10yrs is often not possible.

What kind of scrubbing are you worried about with tile?

Now, from a natural building standpoint, you might consider tile for thermal reasons.  Tile will add thermal mass to your home, collecting winter sun and sending it back into the house in the evening. Wood wont do that, but wood will feel warmer on your feet even though the house air will be colder

Personally I'm leaning towards a clay floor with waxed coverage in my plans.

I like the idea of using bamboo though I would want solid bamboo rather than laminate for several reasons.

Moisture is the top reason not to go with laminate.

You like wood flooring.  It seems tile ( grout can be minimized to 1/8 inch , not a bother )  is not your first choice.  But have you spent the necessary hours installing said flooring?  
Even with a special nail gun attachment and a compressor,  this is certainly not a walk in the park.  

Expect your knees and lumbar region to be in protest, and  with standard  oak or hickory tongue and groove, the quality can vary.  Twisted or irregular pieces are common. You can't choose the perfectly straight pieces as if analyzing a stack of 2 x 6 x 8 at the lumber store.  Flooring comes in a box, sight unseen, with a range of problems.  Expect to discard a few in each box.  If the flooring is on sale, or a closeout, you might find 30% unusable,  happened to me on one project. Finishing is not quick, power sanding and varnishing is a demanding task, in my experience.  

Bamboo laminate is not a great idea, but real bamboo isn't a perfect  solution. Beautiful yes, but not necessarily practical.   My wife loved the look, and I finally acquiesced for our guest room. It isn't rugged like a good Hardwood, sad to say.  Our oak and hickory is perfect after 20 years, but the bamboo seems to show scratches from mere foot traffic. It has also warped over 5 years, even though I used equal techniques......namely, using plenty of specialized nails and construction adhesive as needed in tight spots.  Moisture can be destructive,  even when using pre finished wood.  In brief, please reconsider; tile, stained cement,  earth, or even old style face-nailed wood might lead to happier outcomes, and a happier wallet.
My 2 pence.  

I own six residental rental properties  and over 25 years I have settled on  a tile called CVT  Composite Vinyl Tile  which is used in hospitals, stores and airports etc.   It does not look as good as the new vinyl planks that resemble wood  but the CVTs have color all the way through if they get scratched etc.   The Vinyl Planks have the wood look painted on the top of them and it scratches right off.   There are many CVT colors to choose from.  # 1 they almost cannot be damaged but if one was damaged, pull the tile up and replace it in a small amount of time.   In bedrooms I now depend exclusively on Carpet Tiles.  The hi quality ones are also used in offices and airports and stores.   Once again,  if one is damaged or dirty or anything, pull it up and replace with another.
Kitchens and Bathrooms get the CVT.    I am not looking for the elegance of hard wood floors in rental properties but the look is entirely acceptable.... think about the banks and stores and offices that you have visited.    All floors are pleasing enough to not make you notice that it is super versatile and rugged.

Thanks to everyone for the replies!

So bamboo is out and bamboo laminate is even more so. I would like CVT in the kitchen, Scott, but I don't know that we can actually get them here in France. Everything is tile here with some laminate. In public spaces, everything is tiled.

The reason I dislike tile is because of the grout. It's impossible to keep it clean. In the spots with heavy foot traffic in public spaces, it's always so gross. And even worse in front of the toilet. Last week, I was at the music conservatory, which was remodeled and reopened in October. It's not like there are that many people in it but the grout in front of the toilets (I went into two different ones) was already heavily discolored. They have very, very thin grout lines in the entry area, but they're not fully filled up and, by the door, dirt is filling the spaces. The tiles are one square meter marble tiles and they look great. But the space between them...

Well, that's the main reason why I hate tile and why i spend time on my hands and knees scrubbing it. The other is because of their hardness. If you drop something on tile, either what you dropped is broken or the tile is broken.  And standing on them while working in the kitchen isn't the most comfortable. I'd really like cork in the kitchen for those tworeasons, but I think my cats would tear it up, incredibly fast

We lived for years in our yurt with chestnut flooring everywhere, even in the kitchen area. It was never damaged by water, even in the winter when I would do dishes inside. If I got water on the floor, I just dried it up immediately.
Is it really too much of a risk in the kitchen?

Why would you feel chestnut would be a risk in the kitchen?

Chestnut is a super hard wood , just be sure about proper installation and finishing

Grout can be sand free and well sealed, and then it won't  need that scrubbing.  

Tiffany, I did read about one tile afficiando who swore by using construction adhesive.  I have not tried it.  She eschewed the mortar bed and grout, she claimed to only adhere tile to a strong subfloor, then carefully used tiny amounts of high quality silicone between 0.3 m tiles.  Tile was snugged up tightly, no grout needed.  
I am not sure if it suits your situation well,  just another idea.

I'd go for wood. I don't know what they use in USA, but in France i just put a nail in the groove at a 45 degree angle and use another tool to get it in deeper. Sometimes i need to use a screwdriver banged into the carrierwood to pull the plank in, as well, it's quicker then when i tile, because they're so unforgiving and kneeling on the planks is softer than on concrete. My sister has bamboo laminate and last time i was in her house it was still very nice after 13 years. But she says after i rementioned it that it has dents, gets grey at the edges and that she knew that it would, and that she doesn't like it, but still she's happy (!?!), oh yeah and she mentioned it handles water badly...
. I'm amazed, tell me what's goping on, i am a builder for 25 years, and not 1 time was there a man who had anything to say about what and how things get done when the woman made up her mind. They pretend in different degrees, but they're dreaming. I don't really even listen to the man if he says he wants something  mostly, just go ahaa and look at her if she hints it's ok then he gets to think he won. Refreshing that for once the man has a say. Or does he read along? Shared account or whot?

Je suis française, Hugo, comme vous !
English translation : I'm French, Hugo, like you!
I'm in Brittany. What region are you in?

My husband  works with wood and is competent in pretty much everything in building, so he does the work on the house and won't dream of me hiring someone else to do things. So I do have to convince him, instead of someone else just nodding at him and doing what I want.

Using silicone instead of grout is an interesting idea. But wouldn't dirt still settle between the tiles just the same?

I Don know that it would be risky to have chestnut in the kitchen, Anne. Especially as my children are older now

And bamboo laminate is definitely out. Especially for the kitchen.

Suis Neerlandais d'origine. Translation i'm Dutch by origin. I live about 20 years in France in Burgundy in parc naturel Morvan. If i would tile and worry about dirtstains i would take light colored tiles for light indoors and very dark grey or black joints, but cementbased , cheaper than silicones and better for the environment.

Every tile floor that I have installed has used coloured grout. The darker, the better. That way dirt and staining are less of an issue.

Hugo Morvan wrote: If i would tile and worry about dirtstains i would take light colored tiles for light indoors and very dark grey or black joints, but cementbased , cheaper than silicones and better for the environment.

Yes, I was going to add that darkly stained material in the gaps is already "dirt coloured" and thus, doesn't show the dirt, from my limited experienced.

Old fashioned "linoleum" is practical and long lasting, but the real thing is something you'd have to make yourself following old instructions. I'm not convinced anything made today would be the real thing - I'd have to do research to figure that out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linoleum#:~:text=Linoleum

The modern "vinyl flooring" is all artificial and from my experience, doesn't last at all well.

Reading the Wikipedia history of linoleum was really interesting. I wish that they still made it the old way.

Jay, I did some research and Forbo makes natural linoleum. And we can order it online in France. So I'm going to talk to my husband about using that in the kitchen. Thanks for your post to get me looking.

Tiffaney Dex wrote:Jay, I did some research and Forbo makes natural linoleum. And we can order it online in France. So I'm going to talk to my husband about using that in the kitchen. Thanks for your post to get me looking.

Thank you so much for doing the research, Tiffaney!

I had never heard of Forbo, but they seem to have a very large reach, although not a lot in North America.
This off their website: "Forbo Flooring Systems is a global provider of premium commercial and residential floor coverings. "
This page: https://www.forbo.com/flooring/en-gl/products/linoleum/cmlack
Talks about both "linoleum" and "marmoleum" and I'm not sure what the difference is, but it appears the Marmoleum either looks like marble, or may have crushed marble as an ingredient.

As with anything like this, one needs to ask a lot of specific questions to make sure you're getting what you want. Just because something's "natural" doesn't mean it's safe for humans - just think amygdalin, the cyanogenic compound in Cherry pits!  

However, I am aware of older tiles and flooring that used to last and wear well for decades, unlike many of the modern versions. You may pay more up front, but it won't need replacing in 10 years. Our current kitchen floor was there when we bought, and still looks in good shape after 30 more years.

I am considering my husband's reasons, plus everything here. Thank you all for the input.

So I always thought there would be tile at the entry, where everyone changes from outdoor shoes to indoor ones. (It rains a lot in Brittany, so people are often in wellies in rural areas, like here.) My husband is really arguing for tiling around the rocket, too. So light tiling with black grout that is sealed. Hugo, what product do you use to seal grout?

Tiffaney Dex wrote: My husband is really arguing for tiling around the rocket, too. So light tiling with black grout that is sealed.

I will back your husband about something *very* fireproof around the rocket. Even if it isn't officially necessary, it tends to keep fire inspectors happy, and since our fire department is mostly volunteers, I am happy to keep their stress levels low!

The people I know who had tiling in their front halls, also tended strongly towards putting washable, absorbent mats down on top of the tile. The issue with tile is that it doesn't absorb any of that wet that comes off the boots or hold onto the grit. One friend was finding she had to clean her front hall daily because of that.  Small mats that can be shaken out the door help with this problem, and mine are all washing machine friendly also.

What would you recommend around the entry, besides having a small rug, Jay?

Tiffaney Dex wrote:What would you recommend around the entry, besides having a small rug, Jay?

First off, I would consider what size area I need to cover. Our "official front entrance" is only 8 ft by a little less than 4 feet and has stairs going up and down from it. I would use some sort of sheet flooring  - no joints to fail, easy to clean, and no place for water to sneak down. I would choose something aimed at commercial or other high traffic place (church/school etc).

I wouldn't sweat the "permieness" for such a small area, so long as it was genuinely long lived, such as some of the 'rubber' flooring that has the benefits of being a little shock resistance and non-slip.

The small rugs would be things like cotton rag rugs (which I have made myself, so I can choose the colour and pattern). These won't last as long, but are easy to replace. Here I would try to go natural fibers so they can be composted when they start to wear out.

For most of my house, if I was redoing or building, I would be aim for natural fibers and materials for floor coverings, but a hall that's going to get continuous wet, muddy boots on it, so long as the product was long lasting, I'd be prepared to compromise. Since the owners put wall-to-wall carpeting in my existing front hall, (we had 1 week to find and buy a house, as hubby was being transferred), we rarely use it. Everyone comes in the garage door where we put coat hooks all along the wall. It's ugly and uninviting, but Hubby has no interest in interior decore and I am choosing my battles.

Hi Tiffaney,
Great conversation here, with lots of different points of view!  You seem very open to the information offered - a good quality for someone looking for an optimal solution...

When I was evaluating flooring options during a kitchen rebuild, the inert / low chemical burden was a priority for me - for both the flooring product itself (tile / wood / underlay etc) and the products to attach it in to place (adhesive / grout / mastic / mortar / whatever).  The building was constructed very tightly with minimal airflow and I did not want to deal with cumulative offgassing.  I second Jay's mention of marmoleum - similar to traditional jute linoleum, minimal chemical burden for both the marmoleum and the mastic to apply it. We used marmoleum tiles which were very easy to install, but it also comes in rolls.   https://www.forbo.com/flooring/en-us/commercial-products/marmoleum/cfctp7
Surely they have a website in French language as well.   Definitely not for around the RMH, but it was really nice, easy to maintain, temperature neutral (unlike tile), and individual tiles could be replaced if something dreadful damaged one of them.

Thanks for your knowledge and experience with Forbo, Kara. I'm really glad to hear it.

Jay, what rubber flooring are you referring to? In lookout on French sites, I see thin rubber mats, meant for garages
And I see rubber tatamis. But that's all. My husband thought that we could put fermacell underflooring below Forbo marmoleum. But fermacell is pretty hard and I'd prefer something softer.

Try looking under industrial flooring, sports flooring, or outdoor playground flooring. Unfortunately, it seems to only come 4 ft wide, unlike most kitchen flooring.

https://www.flooringinc.com/shop/rubber-flooring/rubber-rolls.html
https://www.flooringinc.com/shop/outdoor-flooring/playground-flooring.html

Not sure if you can find any you would feel looks good in an entranceway, but if you're putting carpet over parts of it, that will help a lot.

Hello,

I still haven't really found anything appropriate for the entry here, but the entry is a long way off still. So I have time. I do wonder what the Japanese use in their entry, in the older style of houses.
What we are doing right now is the kitchen and we are hoping to activate finish it completely this year. And we would have one room actually finished.  So we are going to use forbo, but we have to figure out what to do under it. Because there is an existing tile flooring.

My mom says that it's really easy to use a sledge hammer to break up tiling and then use a metal snow shovel to get everything up, scraping off the bits that are still stuck. But she says this, not from experience, but from watching home improvement television programs. Television shows can make all sorts of difficult things seem easy. Does anyone have experience with this? If so, is it harder than what my mom says and is it a huge amount of dust? We cut out part of a masonry wall to put in a window over the kitchen sink, so I'm not sure why I would worry about dust when everything is going to continually get dusty anyway.

If the tile would be too hard to get rid of, I'd like to have it covered with a thin layer of lime cement. My husband says it won't work because it would have to be much thicker than what I would like. He says we'd need to use ciment with fiber glass in it, which would be quite horrible. I was wondering if we could use something like wool in it, to have something more ecological. Anyone know if that might work? If we manage to get a smooth layer on the floor, I would want to glue down cork tiles and put the forbo on top of the cork, to have something that's rather softer.

Can anyone please give me advice?